When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

[Roy B.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Michael,

I am kind of in the same situation that your client is. I have a 1965 coupe with L79, ps, pb, a/c, Kelsey Hayes KO's and a dealer installed luggage rack. All mechanical components are the original factory restored items with correct date codes. The engine stamp pad still correct also including the broach marks. This car has been in the family since the early 1970's and for the most part is unrestored except for a repaint and an engine overhaul in 1977. The car was unfortunately painted with clear coat and the door jams were painted with Imron and are like a mirror. The interior is in excellent shape also, everything is original and unrestored except that at sometime before we bought the car, the seat inserts were covered with the black and white hounds tooth cloth material similar to what would find in the early Camaros. You can feel the original vinyl material under the cloth.

I am currently replacing the heater core, performing functional repairs the clock, radio and having the speedo and tach rebuilt. I am not making these items look any better because I want them to still look unrestored. I had to put in a new radiator last spring since the original one could not be repaired; I replaced it with the correct repro from DeWitts. I will also go though the suspension and replace the bushings as needed to make the car more road worthy also.

I doubt this car would even make a Bloomington Silver Certificate BUT I do think that with some work the car might score a Top Flight with some work to the door jams, seats, some carefully cleaning and if enough mileage points were figured in.

I am wrestling with the idea of restoring the car in the future, but it rides and drives so well and its appearance is very good that I really don't think a restore is warranted. I enjoy driving the car on nice days and to the NCRS meets and plan to drive it on the road tour to the Novi Michigan meet in 2010 were I hope to have it judged.

I'd tell your client to correct the items that you mentioned to make it appear original, do some careful cleaning and leave the car as is. As others have mentioned it has more historic significance as it is than if he would have it restored.

Hey Roy Bratz! The 1953 Corvette in the background of the picture on the right is serial #99 owned by long time friend Don Peers here in Omaha. Notice the wire wheels and incorrect black paint. The car has black and silver-gray tuck 'n roll interior. All mechanical components are original. This car was on the ISCA show circuit through the mid 1960's. He drives this car during the summer months and has no plans to restore the car, just drive and enjoy it as is.


Best Regards,

James West
Omaha, NE.

James
The best I can tell there the same wire wheels as mine, it that right.

[Dennis S.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

I have been told on this board to think about leaving my car alone, that it could be valuable to the NCRS for teaching and judging schools. My situation is probably not that different than many others. I bought this car because it is exactly what I wanted to buy in 1969 but couldn't afford. Now that I can, I intend to enjoy driving it as much as possible. It really needs a lot of work to be anywhere near reliable. Owning two cars so that I can keep one for the benefit of the NCRS is just not in my picture.

I have also been told that it could be worth more as a "Survivor" than restored. That sure seems strange to hear from people in an organization devoted to the restoration of old corvettes. Just for laughs and grins, let's say my car would bring $60K if I get to National Top Flight. What would it bring with a "Survivor" or a "Bow Tie" award? I'm not talking about a bidding war between fat cats at a TV auction, but rather selling to a fellow NCRS member.

[Patrick H.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

I have been told on this board to think about leaving my car alone, that it could be valuable to the NCRS for teaching and judging schools. My situation is probably not that different than many others. I bought this car because it is exactly what I wanted to buy in 1969 but couldn't afford. Now that I can, I intend to enjoy driving it as much as possible. It really needs a lot of work to be anywhere near reliable. Owning two cars so that I can keep one for the benefit of the NCRS is just not in my picture.

I have also been told that it could be worth more as a "Survivor" than restored. That sure seems strange to hear from people in an organization devoted to the restoration of old corvettes. Just for laughs and grins, let's say my car would bring $60K if I get to National Top Flight. What would it bring with a "Survivor" or a "Bow Tie" award? I'm not talking about a bidding war between fat cats at a TV auction, but rather selling to a fellow NCRS member.

If it really gets all 4 Stars and therefore a Bowtie, value is anywhere from 20-50% higher.

What you think needs to be done to make it roadworthy "may" differ from what actually needs to be done. I see a lot of cars that get "everything" replaced to make them roadworthy when they really don't need that. Consider having the car evaluated by somebody who knows what they're doing - and not necessarily a shop with interest ($) in repairing it.

Patrick

[Mark D.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Mike read this, David knows what he is talking about
regards Tom
http://www.bloomingtongold.com/docum...ot02.07.08.pdf

Who is this David guy? Has he been fooling with Corvettes for a while? Is it Bloomington as in Indiana?

[Sal C.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Flight 737 leaving for WHERE?

[Dennis S.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

What you think needs to be done to make it roadworthy "may" differ from what actually needs to be done. I see a lot of cars that get "everything" replaced to make them roadworthy when they really don't need that. Consider having the car evaluated by somebody who knows what they're doing - and not necessarily a shop with interest ($) in repairing it.Patrick

Dave Walters looked at the car five years ago and told me it was very original. His advice has been consistently sought and given. When I came to the fork in the road earlier this year, he plainly told me that it was my decision. I can assure you that he is not in this business to make money...he is passionate about old cars. He also was invited to judge the newly created non-vette "Survivor" field at Bloomington Gold this year.

Not every old car is a survivor, even under David Burrough's definition. Mine would probably have made it when I first got it, after a tremendous amount of cleaning. However, enough things had been messed with and enough things have subsequently either broken or started leaking to send me down the path of restoration. I may never get to the NCRS judging field, but I will have one fine looking and dependable ride. Besides, I love working on cars and happen to know how to wrench. My car has never been in Dave's shop, but many of the parts have.

Thanks for the advice, and enjoy your beautiful bowtie.

[Terry M.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Maybe Bloomington, Minnesota? And one hopes not a NWA Airbus A320.

[Mark R.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Unrestored original Corvettes are a tremendous asset at Flight Judging meets, as a reference for Judges and to show owners what original finishes look like.

For those who own these Corvette treasurers, please share them with the hobby.

Mark

[Patrick H.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Dave Walters looked at the car five years ago and told me it was very original. His advice has been consistently sought and given. When I came to the fork in the road earlier this year, he plainly told me that it was my decision. I can assure you that he is not in this business to make money...he is passionate about old cars. He also was invited to judge the newly created non-vette "Survivor" field at Bloomington Gold this year.

Not every old car is a survivor, even under David Burrough's definition. Mine would probably have made it when I first got it, after a tremendous amount of cleaning. However, enough things had been messed with and enough things have subsequently either broken or started leaking to send me down the path of restoration. I may never get to the NCRS judging field, but I will have one fine looking and dependable ride. Besides, I love working on cars and happen to know how to wrench. My car has never been in Dave's shop, but many of the parts have.

Thanks for the advice, and enjoy your beautiful bowtie.

I'd trust Dave. He's a good guy and you can go with his advice.
But you already knew that.

[Loren L.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

It should be a REQUIREMENT that Flight judges attend Bowtie Judging as OJs if only to back their heads out of the neverlands so that they can see what real cars look like - Flint, St Louis and BG did NOT restore cars, they built them to sell - and they did.

[Alan S.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Hi
It's interesting to read how David's views have evolved since the Ellefsen 65 he restored that was written about by Michael Antonick in CORVETTE RESTORATION STATE OF THE ART in 1981.
Regards,
Alan

[Patrick H.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Hi
It's interesting to read how David's views have evolved since the Ellefsen 65 he restored that was written about by Michael Antonick in CORVETTE RESTORATION STATE OF THE ART in 1981.
Regards,
Alan

In what way do you mean?