When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

[Michael N.]

I work in a small Corvette restoration shop that does mainly total body-off restorations. We currently have a client with a one-owner true survivor 1969 convertible. It has had the engine rebuilt at some time and some minor "hot-rod" add-ons that need to be corrected, but the paint is mostly original, the interior has never been touched and the chrome is all original. The owner wants the car "freshened up" with new carpet, new seat covers, and a new engine wiring harness. Just how far should we go to make the car road worthy and safe, but retain the "survivor" designation?

[Rick A.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

well, you say engine rebuilt - MECH is out from "survivor" view

you say some hotrod items need to be replaced -almost sounds like CHASSIS is probably out from "survivor" view

any changes to the EXTERIOR from a hotrod view - probably would take that out of "survivor" view, depending on extent

that leaves INTERIOR

what you need to remember, car needs to be EVALUATED at a Regional and score around 80-85% originality in each of the four areas - then the car needs to be "invited" to the National for the SURVIVOR designation and assignment of the ONE, TWO, THREE or FOUR Stars

[Jack C.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

"Survivor" status is only bestowed on a car at Bloomington. A car has to be deemed at least 50% original in 4 catagories. Under Hood, interior, paint and chassis. You must score 3 out of the 4 categories to be considered a "Survivor"

[Sal C.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

SURVIVOR is a Bloomington Gold certification, not NCRS. Check their website for criteria.

[Roy S.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

[Harmon C.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

A Survivor is an old Corvette at Bloomington that can look real old but is not restored and only needs to make the grade of 50% in three out of four areas at Bloomington by two judges.
A Duntov car needs to still look pretty nice 80-85% in all four areas. The different ways of judging means thease cars can be miles apart in how nice they still are.
Most cars make the Surivor award that try for it. Only the best get the Bowtie because all four areas must pass 10 judges.

[Paul B.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

...I like the Survivor program. Love to see how the cars age due to neglect, weather, care, etc.

...to me a Survivor is a "mostly" original car. Can have many miles on it, but should maintain "most" of it's originality. Tires, batteries, exhausts, belts, hoses, etc. are kind of expected to be changed as they are maintenance items.

...when you start seeing that the paint has been changed; carpet, door panels, seat covers changed, engine compartment and chassis areas changed, i.e. painting the frame, a-arms, trailing arms, engine, valve covers, intake manifold, etc., are "restoration" changes. These will knock a car out of Survivor as it should.

...I've put three cars through the Survivor program. A Silver '68 Coupe w/43,000mi, a '74 Coupe w/38,000mi and a 1980 Coupe w/87,000mi., all passing all four categories. Yeah, they had miles and usage on them and maintenance items replaced over the years, but they were "unrestored" and "unmodified".

[Michael N.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

I want to thank everyone for their help and comments. The "survivor" description came from the owner, but it does appear to be a fairly original car. He put headers on it years ago, but has the original manifolds. He also replaced the alternator, but still has the old one. We shall advise him on how to proceed if he truly wants to get that designation.

[Jeff G.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Michael, You are in a unique situation to advise your client on the direction to take with his car. It seems some of the answers you received were not directed at the true meaning of your question. Semantics and titles aside, your client has a unique piece of history in his hands. He would have much to be proud of by preserving the car as best he can. The challenge of finding original unrestored cars is getting increasingly hard. There is much fun and satisfaction in returning a car to it's original condition. Put the old parts back on (alt. rebuild) and start the treasure hunt to find the other unrestored parts to bring this car back to it's original glory.
Jeff

[Tom M.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Michael, You are in a unique situation to advise your client on the direction to take with his car. It seems some of the answers you received were not directed at the true meaning of your question. Semantics and titles aside, your client has a unique piece of history in his hands. He would have much to be proud of by preserving the car as best he can. The challenge of finding original unrestored cars is getting increasingly hard. There is much fun and satisfaction in returning a car to it's original condition. Put the old parts back on (alt. rebuild) and start the treasure hunt to find the other unrestored parts to bring this car back to it's original glory.
Jeff

yes, yes !!!!!!!!

[Patrick H.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Michael, You are in a unique situation to advise your client on the direction to take with his car. It seems some of the answers you received were not directed at the true meaning of your question. Semantics and titles aside, your client has a unique piece of history in his hands. He would have much to be proud of by preserving the car as best he can. The challenge of finding original unrestored cars is getting increasingly hard. There is much fun and satisfaction in returning a car to it's original condition. Put the old parts back on (alt. rebuild) and start the treasure hunt to find the other unrestored parts to bring this car back to it's original glory.
Jeff

Agree.
It's worth more to many Corvette people as-is than if he attempts to "update" or replace many components.

Patrick

[Ridge K.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?



Ridge

[Patrick H.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Ridge

Ridge,

Are you implying that "survivors" are generally trailered and restored cars are generally driven? Or that you'd rather have a restored car that you can drive? I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from.

Having been to multiple NCRS meets and Bloomington events, I would not personally ever make the generalization that the unrestored cars are trailered and the restored cars are driven. I've seen it both types of cars trailered to all types of events. And, I've seen both types driven to all types of events. Perhaps your experiences differ from mine.

I've driven my (now) 5-Star Bowtie car many miles in attempting its awards, including driving it to the NCRS National in 2004 for its Bowtie judging. And, many of the cars I saw there were often driven. Logistics often keeps one from driving your older Corvette to an NCRS event where it is being judged, as the car isn't supposed to move from the judging field. So, I've had to trailer mine to 2 events even though I hated doing so just because I needed to be able to move my family around during a meet.

Oh, forgot. I trailered it for the 3rd ever time to an event last year, as it had to stay indoors at Carlisle for 4 days on display. I hated trailering it that time too, and almost drove it down there.

It won't be long and I can get it out of storage for some nice drives.

Patrick

[Timothy B.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

I agree with others, put the original parts back on and don't touch the interior. Get rid of the hot rod parts then take a breath because the car will be worth more in that condition. Sounds like a nice car..

[James W.]

Re: When is a "survivor" no longer a "survivor"?

Michael,

I am kind of in the same situation that your client is. I have a 1965 coupe with L79, ps, pb, a/c, Kelsey Hayes KO's and a dealer installed luggage rack. All mechanical components are the original factory restored items with correct date codes. The engine stamp pad still correct also including the broach marks. This car has been in the family since the early 1970's and for the most part is unrestored except for a repaint and an engine overhaul in 1977. The car was unfortunately painted with clear coat and the door jams were painted with Imron and are like a mirror. The interior is in excellent shape also, everything is original and unrestored except that at sometime before we bought the car, the seat inserts were covered with the black and white hounds tooth cloth material similar to what would find in the early Camaros. You can feel the original vinyl material under the cloth.

I am currently replacing the heater core, performing functional repairs the clock, radio and having the speedo and tach rebuilt. I am not making these items look any better because I want them to still look unrestored. I had to put in a new radiator last spring since the original one could not be repaired; I replaced it with the correct repro from DeWitts. I will also go though the suspension and replace the bushings as needed to make the car more road worthy also.

I doubt this car would even make a Bloomington Silver Certificate BUT I do think that with some work the car might score a Top Flight with some work to the door jams, seats, some carefully cleaning and if enough mileage points were figured in.

I am wrestling with the idea of restoring the car in the future, but it rides and drives so well and its appearance is very good that I really don't think a restore is warranted. I enjoy driving the car on nice days and to the NCRS meets and plan to drive it on the road tour to the Novi Michigan meet in 2010 were I hope to have it judged.

I'd tell your client to correct the items that you mentioned to make it appear original, do some careful cleaning and leave the car as is. As others have mentioned it has more historic significance as it is than if he would have it restored.

Hey Roy Bratz! The 1953 Corvette in the background of the picture on the right is serial #99 owned by long time friend Don Peers here in Omaha. Notice the wire wheels and incorrect black paint. The car has black and silver-gray tuck 'n roll interior. All mechanical components are original. This car was on the ISCA show circuit through the mid 1960's. He drives this car during the summer months and has no plans to restore the car, just drive and enjoy it as is.


Best Regards,

James West
Omaha, NE.