Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

[Bob M.]

Anyone with a 1963-64 drum brake car knows that hard braking adds a new element of excitement to the Corvette driving experience. I've run semi-metallic shoes in the past and felt that they improved things a little. In an effort to find similar shoes (with no success) I came across "Stage I Matrix Ceramic Shoes 1953-1965 Corvette" at this site. No clue as to their origin, etc., and distribution seems to be very limited.

I don't know how "ceramic" these might be compared to hi-tech ceramic racing brakes, but for $100 per axle, I would consider them. Any knowledgeable brake people that will put performance ahead of points for a moment have an opinion? If not these, any recommendations for other brands, compositions?

I live in Colorado and need to stop going downhill...

[Steven B.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

Anyone with a 1963-64 drum brake car knows that hard braking adds a new element of excitement to the Corvette driving experience. I've run semi-metallic shoes in the past and felt that they improved things a little. In an effort to find similar shoes (with no success) I came across "Stage I Matrix Ceramic Shoes 1953-1965 Corvette" at this site. No clue as to their origin, etc., and distribution seems to be very limited.

I don't know how "ceramic" these might be compared to hi-tech ceramic racing brakes, but for $100 per axle, I would consider them. Any knowledgeable brake people that will put performance ahead of points for a moment have an opinion? If not these, any recommendations for other brands, compositions?

I live in Colorado and need to stop going downhill...

Bob, I know a guy who installed the shoes on his Corvette last year and is happy with them. He lives on flat land, no hills or mountains, and just cruises and does not brake hard. I have no personal experience with the brakes. Maybe some Dallas members are familiar with the company since it is in Rockwall. It is about 100 miles from me.

Check our membership numbers.

Steve

[Ernest C.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

Bob, I just put Carbotech brake shoes on my '61, and am very pleased. Try checking them out on their website where they fully detail their products.
Good luck
Ernie Cope

[Jim L.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

... I came across "Stage I Matrix Ceramic Shoes 1953-1965 Corvette" .... Any knowledgeable brake people that will put performance ahead of points for a moment have an opinion? If not these, any recommendations for other brands, compositions?

I live in Colorado and need to stop going downhill...

Bob,

Stopping reliably ranks higher than points with me.

I've heard of these Matrix Ceramic shoes but have no first hand knowledge of how well they work. However, I do have first hand experience with Carbotech (disc brake ) products and they work extremely well. I also have heard of good results having been achieved with Carbotech brake shoes in a vintage race application.

So, if I had to pick between (unknown) matrix ceramic shoes and (known) Carbotech shoes, I'd pick Carbotech.

Jim

[Duke W.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

Whenever you shop for brake shoes or pads, always look at the pad material or shoe/pad backing plate. All should have some alphanumeric fields including the friction material part number and friction characteristics. This might be a federal standard because I haven't seen any lately that weren't marked.

If the salesmen is clueless ask him to pull a set from stock and read the data to you.

Friction characterisitics are coded with two letter's like "FF" which give the range of friction coefficient at low (first letter) and high temperature. IIRC the two temps are 300F and 600F, and the coding is as follows, code and Cf.

E - 0.25-0.35
F - 0.35-0.45
G - 0.45-0.55

For reference, steel on steel is about 0.25. The higher the Cf the lower the pedal effort, and if the Cf is lower at high temp than low temp, it means they may fade.

Most decent friction materials are coded "FF".

I just went through this with my '88 Mercedes 190E 2.6 looking for a replacement for the Repco Deluxe pads that I installed circa 1989 to replace the OE pads, which worked great, but squeaked, dusted like crazy, and were chewing up the rotors.

The Repco Deluxe required higher pedal effort and faded in track events (though I never completely lost the brakes, just had high effort and pedal travel), but they didn't dust, squeak, or chew up the rotors.

The Deluxe became Deluxe Plus and Repco became PBR, but now the decendent appears to be Axxis Deluxe Advanced.

Interestingly, the front pad material code/friction characteristics is BM1462 GF, but the rear is BM1462 FF. I don't know how the same material can have different characteristics, so I have a call into FMP, which is the material manufacturer. They have an office in Oceanside, CA.

It's never easy!

All pads and shoes also have a FMSI (Friction Material Standards Institute) number based on their geometry. Disk pads start with "D" and IIRC shoes just have a number. The C1/C2 pad number is D8, which is probably also stamped on the friction material or backing plate of new pads, and may be incorporated into the sales part number. D-numbers are now well over 1000, so you get an idea of how early the Corvette system was in the evolution of disk brake systems.

So when shopping for brakes, make sure you have the correct FMSI number, then look at the characteristics of available friction materials.

Given the good service I got from the Repro Deluxe on the Merc, I would have no problem installing the current decendent on a disk brake Corvette for any use other than serious road racing.

Duke

[Stuart F.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

I have the Matrix Ceramic shoes and kits installed on my 63 to replace the J-65 Metallics. I have about 500 miles on them now and consider them just run in. I'm very pleased with them in that I feel I get equal or near equal performance from them, but then I don't flog them as in racing or extreme elevation use. I have panic stopped them a few times and pushed them hard as one would who doesn't baby their L-76. I feel confident enough to do that with them. I have not experienced any fade or pulling, and they are near impossible to lock up - just like the metallics. The major difference being that they are consistent throughout the heat range, i.e. they stop equally good when cold as when they are hot.

I bought these through a Texas company called "Praise Dyno Brake Co." (www.praisedynobrake.com), phone; 972 636-2722 or 877 606-7867.

Using their kits meant installing their wheel cylinders, springs and adjusters which they call heavy duty. I'm not certain how each component matches with the original, but I wanted to have all new parts and expected theirs to be compatible. I used a newly rebuilt (sleeved) 63 Master Cylinder for correctness, but feel I could realize some improvement in the "pedal feel" with a different sized MC.

I originally installed them with replacement drums, but could not get them to adjust right (there seemed to be a different dimensional relationship between the hub surface to the depth of the lining surface and the shoes would not position in the drums correctly). I went back to my original drums which I was able to have turned clean within specs, then once I got them hub matched I was in business, i.e. they had to go on to the correct hub and in the correct position on the hub.

Stu Fox

[Steven B.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

Whenever you shop for brake shoes or pads, always look at the pad material or shoe/pad backing plate. All should have some alphanumeric fields including the friction material part number and friction characteristics. This might be a federal standard because I haven't seen any lately that weren't marked.

If the salesmen is clueless ask him to pull a set from stock and read the data to you.

Friction characterisitics are coded with two letter's like "FF" which give the range of friction coefficient at low (first letter) and high temperature. IIRC the two temps are 300F and 600F, and the coding is as follows, code and Cf.

E - 0.25-0.35
F - 0.35-0.45
G - 0.45-0.55

For reference, steel on steel is about 0.25. The higher the Cf the lower the pedal effort, and if the Cf is lower at high temp than low temp, it means they may fade.

Most decent friction materials are coded "FF".

I just went through this with my '88 Mercedes 190E 2.6 looking for a replacement for the Repco Deluxe pads that I installed circa 1989 to replace the OE pads, which worked great, but squeaked, dusted like crazy, and were chewing up the rotors.

The Repco Deluxe required higher pedal effort and faded in track events (though I never completely lost the brakes, just had high effort and pedal travel), but they didn't dust, squeak, or chew up the rotors.

The Deluxe became Deluxe Plus and Repco became PBR, but now the decendent appears to be Axxis Deluxe Advanced.

Interestingly, the front pad material code/friction characteristics is BM1462 GF, but the rear is BM1462 FF. I don't know how the same material can have different characteristics, so I have a call into FMP, which is the material manufacturer. They have an office in Oceanside, CA.

It's never easy!

All pads and shoes also have a FMSI (Friction Material Standards Institute) number based on their geometry. Disk pads start with "D" and IIRC shoes just have a number. The C1/C2 pad number is D8, which is probably also stamped on the friction material or backing plate of new pads, and may be incorporated into the sales part number. D-numbers are now well over 1000, so you get an idea of how early the Corvette system was in the evolution of disk brake systems.

So when shopping for brakes, make sure you have the correct FMSI number, then look at the characteristics of available friction materials.

Given the good service I got from the Repro Deluxe on the Merc, I would have no problem installing the current decendent on a disk brake Corvette for any use other than serious road racing.

Duke

Duke has some very good info.! I was once a production manager in a brake and clutch mfg. plant where we made pads and shoes for GM, Raybestos, IH, etc. and also Sears and JC Penney. The D8, at that time, was the most common backing plate in production. Check to see if the pads are riveted or adhered with adhesive. Rivets, at the time, held up best under shear testing. Some backing plates and pads use both-hard to find but usually do not have to worry about low shear. They also had some small sharp "pyramid" spikes that held pads to plates when using adhesive.

We even had a Corvette for a test vehicle for brakes and clutches. It was worth a trip to Milford! The best fade resistent materials we tested were metallic with a carrier of asbestos bound with cashew oil! That stuff would bite at high temps! We did not market it because of the cashew oil cost but I did make up a set for my VW and it would stand on its nose!

[Jean C.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

It appears that www.musclecarbrakes.com and www.praisedynobrake.com are the same outfit...same "...40 acre site...", same phone numbers and same brake packages offered.

Lacking empirical test data on performance shoes vs. standard shoes for the '63 - '64, one is left to read the sellers' advertising material tempered with info gained from this TDB. I'll start by collecting some Cf data from vendors, making a choice and hoping for improved performance.

Would you'll go out on a limb to say that using shoes such as Matrix Ceramic design or similar performance shoes would make a "vast" or "significant" or "somewhat" improvement over off the shelf shoes purchased at NAPA?

Perhaps I should drive my '64 to Florida and stage a brake comparison test with Stu.

My first hand knowledge regarding a panic stop on a freeway in my '64 is that your you-know-what cuts washers out of your skivvies. Presents a whole new definition to the term "panic stop"...I panic while the car almost stops.

Best regards,

[Steven B.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

Also, try www.porterfield-brakes.com

R-4 Woven Kevlar
Porterfields Woven Kevlar is high friction woven
composite material designed for use in mechanically
actuated drum brake systems. It has
very high friction at ambient and low temperatures
for good initial bite and may be bonded
to aluminum or steel brake shoe cores. Trusted
by top car mechanics to stop the most valuable
of vintage vehicles safely, without any unnecessary
drum wear. This material is widely used
in vintage racing and vintage touring events on
vehicles with mechanical drum brakes.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Matrix Ceramic Shoes for Drum Brake Cars, Stop or Not? pic

The brakes marketed by Praise Dyno Brakes used to be listed as being made from "Kevlar", then they changed to "Matrix Ceramic". I asked the salesman on the phone about the name change, i.e. was there an actual material change or what. As I recall, he said they ran into a trademark issue. He also related to me that their main business was manufacturing braking materials for many industries including aircraft, locomotive and heavy equipment, and sold under a number of other trade names in the industry for friction materials. The aftermarket automotive business was just one of their sidelines.

Stu Fox