Importance of paperwork?

[William L.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

I think it also depends on what you are looking at. Lets say you have 2 cars with the same paper and history back to the selling dealer. Now here are the two cars. Car "A" 67 coupe, Goodwood Green, 300HP, 4spd, radio, NCRS Top Flight at a Regional or National. I think the paper work would make it bring 10 to 20% more with the Paper and Top Flight. Now car "B" is a 67 Black coupe, 435HP, side pipe,radio, NCRS Top Flight at a Regional or National, I think the car would bring 25 to 40% more than the same car with out the paper and Top Flight. Just my thoughts.

[John M.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

I am a big fan of paperwork.

My previous 64 (NOM) had enough paperwork to prove it was an original SHP, and the original owners name and selling dealer. I believe I got 2K more for it than it would have w/o paper.

My most recent one came with original bill of sale, window sticker, mutliple old CA pink slips, owner history to day 1. I paid 2-3K more than I would have w/o them. Pretty much a base car, but I can prove rolled out of St. Louis with leather seats. I think that's pretty neat. It's nice to know where your car has been, and that it was not created after the fact.

[Page C.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

Sometimes owners wish the original paper would never appear. Look at the reply I made on 1966 Vin#12284 post by Brian Mchale on 3/13/09 on this board.
Page Campbell

[Dale S.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

Page, That is why I registered a 67 big block that I owned in the C-2 registry even though I dont have the car. I sold it to a guy and he hit a solid concrete bus bench at high speed totalling the car and himself. I found the twisted frame only in a junk yard years later with the vin and trim tag missing. I still have the window sticker in my safe. I figure as long as it is listed in the C-2 registry as totaled, it wont show up restored some where. Anyone have any coments on this decision good or bad? Dale

[Greg L.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

Paperwork is just another piece of the "puzzle". Personaly I think too much emphasis is put on it because so much of it is reproduced and you pretty much need to be an expert(which I am not) to tell some of it from the originals.

I agree with all the comments others have said so I really don't have much more to add.

I will say this though...I just missed out on what I think could be a pretty desireable car but because it had no docs I dragged my feet. The engine was missing but everything else pointed to it being what the seller was claiming it was. By the time I got my head out of this whole paperwork thing and realized that there was a very strong possibility that the car was as the seller says it was it was too late. I'm learning and to me paperwork is just the icing on the cake and I won't make that same mistake again.

Moral of that story is if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck...even if it is missing some of it's feathers.

[Mike E.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

And many ducks are dead because they came flying down to the decoys.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

Being an original owner I can say truely say I appreciate the paper work I did save only because I'm a pack rat by nature. I wish now I'd have saved all my service receipts too. I specially appreciate my old photos, particularly those at Missile Park at White Sands Missile Range where I was stationed in August 1963. I even had the forethought to leave the parking lights on. Orange! Really cool. Something new and different.

Stu Fox

[Tom S.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

I really appreciate the input here. I passed on the one closest to me because of no paperwork, Now the 3 I have left are 1,000 miles away. The one I like the best is going to be checked out by a fellow NCRS member who offered to do so. I really appreciate all the help! Thanks again to everyone who helped. Tom Stanton #41491

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

I wouldn't automatically pass on that car--all things being equal, it doesn't have as much value as an identical car with real paperwork. There certainly is no shortage of bogus paperwork out there--and no shortage of bogus cars!

The only good thing about previous owner to original is that with WHITE PAGES & others you can get phone #'S & addresses. I talked to the original owner of my 67 400/air coupe that way. I also talked to the original & second owner of my 70 LT-1 CONV. The bonus with this is I heard stories about the cars in the day that were priceless. Most of the C2 & C3 past owners are still around.
KEN

[Greg L.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

And many ducks are dead because they came flying down to the decoys.

Yes Mike that is so very true! But on the flip side many real cars have also been overlooked for lack of paperwork.

Years ago Pontiac started providing build sheets for a service. All these GTO guys then thought GREAT!, now I can prove that my 65 GTO is real once and for all. They send in thier VIN and $25 and a few weeks later they are dumb founded that thier VIN was for a LeMans or worse...just a Tempest!

Here in Canada we can fax GM Vintage services with a VIN and if the car was sold in Canada after about the early-mid 60s we will have a their undisputable documentation.

If it can be repoped to increase the value of a vehical, it will be. Common docs like tank stickers and POPs are repoped everyday so you need to know how to tell the real stuff from the fakes...I can't yet. Uncommon docs like Dealer's bills of sale, repair records etc are hard to verify because there is nothing to compare them to yet in some cases they are acceptable...

Bottom line for me is the only docs that I would trust these days are those right from the horse's mouth...Pontiac Historical Services, GM of Canada Vintage Vehical Service, etc. Failing that you or someone you know that can look at the docs or vehical MUST know what to look for to verify that a car is what the seller says it is...or was.

[John H.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

The discussion of fake paper work to construct a car that was never built brings up another subject. How much of an original car do you need to reconstruct one from the grave? I bring this up from Dale's reply. If someone bought his old frame and took the #'s from the frame had new tags made, would that make the new car a fake in some way? Or, could he reconstruct one with the tags and paperwork. I bring this up because some rare cars have been reborn with less than that. I have read that there may be two 1965 GT-40P#10**'s around.Both built from parts of same wreck. One of two Boss 429 Cougars was found with just the fender ID.on the shock tower. The shock tower was all that was left. No body.

[Tom S.]

Re: Importance of paperwork?

Very interesting conversation. I definately will check all the #'s I can find. But I really want some paperwork as well. I also agree that calling one or more previous owners would add to the car's worth in my mind. Thanks again. Tom