Deduction For Reproduction Tires

[Dave B.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Assuming my firestone gold line reproduction OEM tires on the four wheels on the ground and the goodyear reproduction OEM gold line spare are correct, except for the DOT notings, I assume the only deduction I would receive is the standard deduction for DOT markings. Would this be a correct assumption?

Thanks

Dave

[William C.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

I believe that is correct for the Goodyear, I have not seen the firestones to comment.

[Larry M.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Assuming my firestone gold line reproduction OEM tires on the four wheels on the ground and the goodyear reproduction OEM gold line spare are correct, except for the DOT notings, I assume the only deduction I would receive is the standard deduction for DOT markings. Would this be a correct assumption?

Thanks

Dave

Dave:

Are your Firestone reproduction goldline tires Super Sports or are they Deluxe Champions? The former is more correct and would likely take a 10% originality deduction. The latter would probably get a 20% or 30% originality deduction.

The Goodyear Power Cushion reproduction goldline would get a 10% originality deduction. In addition, since it is not an original 1965-66 tire and is also non-matching to the others, it would also incur an additional 20% originality deduction for that tire (total of 30%). The way I understand the Tire Standard Deductions is if the spare does not match the four road tires it will incur this additional 20% deduction UNLESS IT IS AN ORIGINAL (non DOT) TIRE. This was done to help encourage keeping the old original spare tire versus replacing it with a reproduction.

Larry

[Dick W.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Larry, et al, the spare is judged on it's own merits. Has NO relationship to the tires on the ground. Could be a GY in the tub and Firestones on the ground. NO penalty for the different brands

[Dave B.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Thanks for the great advice. The Firestones gold lines are super sports. If the spare is judged separately it does not sound like I would gain any points changing the spare to a Firestone since it will have DOT markings as well.

Thanks

Dave

[Jeffrey A.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Well I am at it again. I have been looking for a set of nos or a good used
original tires for some time for my 63 (for judging purpose only) and this is
a task is something I am just going to have to face the music. Attached area couple of pictures of Kelsy Goodyear tires that I am considering to
purchase to change out my current set of re-pops. My hope is I will only
get a standard deduction of 10% and not 20% as I did with my current set of repops on my car. I planning on taking my car to go back to the chapter level then onto regionals this year and as we all know this is an area you can get hammered on. Any advise or experiences, on these tires vs the others re-pop manufactures out there is greatly appreciated. Thank you - Jeff

[Clark K.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Jeffery,
I just had my '65 L76 Coupe Flight Judged at the April 4th Texas Chapter meet. I have 5 matching repro bias ply tires with the (required-by-law) DOT marks. I just looked at my car's yellow NCRS Exterior Judging Sheet that I received last week. "Section #20-Tires" shows 30 points alloted for originality and 30 points for condition. Perhaps I can shed some light on your dilemma.

Page 76 of the 1965 Technical Information Manual & Judging Guide states: "All factory-installed tires are 7.75-15 of tubelesss, two-ply construction with a four-ply rating. The standard tire is a blackwall with three additional tire styles available as options. Original equipment tires do not have DOT numbers typical of current reproductions. Typically, DOT numbers are found near the bead on the backside of the tire. The valve stem is approximately 1-3/8" long. The original equipment manufacturers' and trade names for blackwall and whitewall tires are..."

Page 77 under "Reproduction Tires" states: "Reproduction tires must match the available OEM brand name identification, 7.75 x 15-size designation, bias ply, etc. DOT numbers molded into the tire and a "Load Range B" typically identifies them...replacing the 4 ply rating -2 ply construction terminology. Reproduction tires are available in blackwall, whitewall, and goldstripe/goldline options."

Page 21 of the Corvette Judging Reference Manual (7th edition) "Table of Originality Deductions" states: "Deduct 10% - Reproduction OEM brand and size tires which differ from original only because of Federally required Department of Transportation (DOT) markings." It continues at the bottom of the page: "Percentages shown are for five (5) matching tires; deduct an additional 20% for each non-matching road tire. Do not deduct for a non-matching spare which appears as original. Condition Scoring Note: If the condition of any tire, including spare, appears to constitute a potential safety hazard in the operation of the vehicle, such as deterioration, damage, or excessive tread wear, condition deductions up to the full amount for that tire or all such tires must be made."

In order to receive all 30 originality points, your car must have tires EXACTLY like the ones that came on it new (OEM), with no DOT markings. However if your car had 40+ year old tires, it is probable that numerous condition points will be deducted. The BEST you can possibly do with five of the best repro tires is 57 total points of the 60 for tire originality and condition.

From reading the manual/guide, I can understand that one judge might in error deduct 10% per road tire (not spare) for a total originality deduction of 12 of the 30 total originality points. Perhaps this is what happened to you. Presence of DOT markings are a standard 10% deduction which is a loss of 3 of the 30 originality points for all five tires. If the tires are brand new and clean, this area is where you can certainly point out politely to the judges that they are in error deducting points for clean brand new tires.

In closing, I would like to encourage you in your quest. I took deductions of 59 for added side exhaust, 22 for overglossy paint, and 30 for reproduction K O wheels. I still came out with 96.3% for Top Flight thanks to nailing the Operations section with a score of a perfect 760 points (zero deductions). What I mean by this is you can take large "hits" in some areas and still come out well.
-Clark

[Jeffrey A.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Clark

Thank you for input and thoughts. Point well recieved and taking. Great pointers. Thank you
Jeff

[Paul C.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

I know I'm probably in the minority and won't gather any sympathy on this one--but I think the huge deduction for non-original tires makes no sense. I realize that having your car judged is your choice but my 71 has new BF Goodrich P225/70R Radial T/A's for which I will loose 60 points. Most NCRS members I have talked to have another set of tires they use for judging. It is hard to justify around $800 for a set of tires to use only for judging especially when they aren't very good handling tires and will have to be stored somewhere while they slowly rot. I guess I will just get it judged with my tires and loose the points. At least with the shocks you can get new bilsteins and paint them and with the battery you can have a close delco for $100 or buy a new repro for $250. I personally can't justify spending $800 for tires I don't want, won't use, and don't handle like the tires I now have. Yes I am now ready to suffer the slings and arrows everyone will throw at me--but that is why this is called a "Discussion Board." (I did buy an original spare for $80 and thought that was reasonable).

[Bill C.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

I think we are really getting anal about tires, paint and a few other things and sooner then later we will have a bunch of museum cars no one will ever see or enjoy... Do what you are comfortible with but I'm driving mine and showing it to the parties that want to see it. I never enjoyed the ones that won everything.............................. Bill #20328

[Dale S.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Anyone thought of an original tire rental service? Rent tires and wheels for judging. Then go back to your driver tires. A business opportunity. Freight would probably eat you up. Dale

[Jeffrey A.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Paul

Thanks for your thoughts and i understand
Were you are coming from, but as we all know
When you have your car judge to NCRS
Standards our cars are to be judged on
How the car was built and delivered by
GM for that year of our car. It's a interesting
And challenging process to achieve a top flight
Award. This year will be my third attempt
Going for a top flight. Thanks jeff

[Michael W.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Anyone thought of an original tire rental service? Rent tires and wheels for judging. Then go back to your driver tires. A business opportunity. Freight would probably eat you up. Dale

Why limit it to tires- let's just lose sight instead of what the restoration and judging hobby was set up for and the credibility and recognition that now surrounds the award.

Why not just create one 'perfect' car that we'll all share amongst ourselves so that we each can pretend that we've actually worked for and earned a Top Flight certificate.

[Dale S.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

It can be your car , I am going to drive mine. Dale

[Michael W.]

Re: Deduction For Reproduction Tires

Seriously- what is the point of making it 'easy' to get a top level award in any hobby or sport?

Dumbing down the regulations to make sure that nobody gets left behind makes no more sense here than it does in grade school.

Finding new ways to 'cheat' your way to the top by temporarily borrowing parts is pretty sleazy.

I have respect for those that have made the personal commitment to get a car to Top Flight level and even more respect for those that keep it there.