Knock Off Wheel coming loose

[Barry N.]

This past weekend I went for a drive in my 66 that is equipped with Western Repro Knock Off wheels. I noticed a thumping noise coming from the drivers side of the car. I took the car home and had my wife listen as I let the car roll backwards in my driveway with the engine off. She said she heard a noise coming from the left front. I jacked up the front end and found the spinner very loose. I removed the spinner the rest of the way to find the locking pin had the knock off threads cut half way through the pin rendering the pin useless. The pin was still stuck in the spinner but now had threads cut into it, allowing it to unscrew on the hub.
I don't know why this happened but I wish someone could restore my confidence in keeping the wheels on the car. I checked to see if the correct knock off hub was installed where it should be, it was. The drivers side (left hand) spinner must be rotated counter clockwise to be removed, just as the spinner is marked.

[John H.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Barry -

Is the wheel properly indexed to the pins on the adapter (drive pins in the small holes and lug nuts in the large holes), and do you have regular lug nuts on the adapters or the correct "long" lug nuts which prevent mis-indexing the wheel to the adapter?

[Bill W.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Barry, Much has been posted here about KO wheels. Bottom line is if they are installed correctly they will not come loose. The "locking pins" will not keep your wheels in place! Do not rely on them. They MAY slow down a thief but that's all. Study your installation sheet and follow it's advise. Torque the adapter on the proper side of the car, using the LONG lug nuts only. Not the short "steel wheel" nuts. I like a good anti-seize lube on the adapter threads and the mating surface between adapter and spinner. Use a large lead hammer and strike the spinner 8 HARD blows.
The only way that wheel will now come off is if you remove it or if the index holes in the wheel (that mate with the adapter) are egg shaped. If those holes are egg shaped the wheel will move slightly (in relation to the adapter) as you accelerate and brake. If this happens, the wheel WILL come off, it's just a matter of time. Bill

[Tom H.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

I agree with Bill that knock off issues are usually due to installation error, somewhere.

Bill mentioned the big lead hammer. The bigger the better and beat them on hard ! I use a 6 or 7 pound American lead hammer.

What are you using to tighten them now ?

[Alan D.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

When done, mark the cone and spinner (wax marker) and check for any movement. Now if done correctly as past postings recommend everything should be OK, however I still mark and check mine just because I'm paranoid.

[Tom H.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Good point ! I always mark mine as well !!!

[James G.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

ALL THE ABOVE are very correct.

DIRT is also the enemy. I always used an anti-cease compound, but the threads must be 100% clean before installing.

Sand will get into the threads of a wheel while being driven and once a dirty wheel is tightened ( 8 blows and all with the lead hammer), the sand will be crushed with use and bingo, the wheel is loose again.

When ever I did tire work on knock off wheels, follow the above directions, clean the threads well (I used brake spray and a clean rag), install as directed (again I used an anti-cease compound), hit the k-off nuts at least 8 times hard. Now last item, drive the car around the block, then retighten after as the wheel may have re-set themselves. Finally mark the wheel after the pins have been reinstalled. I used a permanant Magic Marker dot on a cone.

Please make sure you have the correct wheels on right and left sides.

[James W.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Barry,

I have these same Western Wheel repros on my '64. They are the early 1980's vintage and I have never ever had a problem with them. I've driven on several cross country NCRS Road Tours and never had a problem with the pins.

May I ask what installation steps/procedure you use when putting them on and tighteneing them? There may be something in your installation procedure that needs to change.

A couple of questions for you?

1. Do you snug(tighten) the wheels up as best you can before putting the full weight of the car back on the wheel/tire? This procedure helps to align and center the wheel on the adapter and insure that the wheel is relatively "tight" before putting the the weight of the car back on the wheel/adapter assembly.

2. When tighten the wheel with the full weight of the car on the wheel/tire, do you align the spinner and adapter alignment slots to the closest (easiest to get to) alignment slot after the wheel is snug tight or do you continue to tighten the wheel until it will align with the next available alignment slot? I tighten it until I stop getting movement, usually after about 4 to 8 blows with the hammer.

3. What type of hammer do you use?
a. original type lead hammer
b. larger 6# aftermarket lead hammer from PAragon, CC, etc
c. dead blow/"clown" hammer

4. When installing the anti-rotation pins; are they loose fitting when you push them into the alignment slot? They should go easily, I usually seat them all the way into the slot by gently tapping on them with a small ball peen hammer. I after installing the pin I take the lead hammer and give it one blow in the "on" direction to be sure the pin is has some slight pressure on it and can't back out on its own. I have done this ever since I have purchased the wheels and have never had an issue with the wheels coming loose.

4. Do you place a "tell-tale" line with a white marker across the top of the knock-off cone and spinner so that you can see if the spinner is coming loose after driving the car? This is a great way to tell after 25, 50 or 100 miles of driving the car whether the wheel is coming loose. My repro wheels have not been off the my car since June 2005 and have logged over 6,000 mile since then and I have not had any problems. I make it a point to monitor them often. This is where the "tell-tale" mark I refered to comes in handy.

I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any other question that you may have. Again myself and many others here on the TDB have had no problems with repro or original KO wheels coming loose. It's all in how they are installed and monitored.

Best of luck,

James West
Omaha, NE.

[John D.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Lead Hammer. The one that came with the car is a toy that doesn't last very long. Save it for the judges and use a man's lead hammer.
Available in most industrial tool catalogs. Many to select from in McMaster-Carr. They sell the hammers and also have a mold to pour a new lead head. For example A 6-1/2# is around $25.00 Or if you are strong enough get a 11# weapon for less than $50.00. I am guessing at the prices as my catalog is about 5 years old.
www.mcmaster.com JD

[Joel T.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

This past weekend I went for a drive in my 66 that is equipped with Western Repro Knock Off wheels. I noticed a thumping noise coming from the drivers side of the car. I took the car home and had my wife listen as I let the car roll backwards in my driveway with the engine off. She said she heard a noise coming from the left front. I jacked up the front end and found the spinner very loose. I removed the spinner the rest of the way to find the locking pin had the knock off threads cut half way through the pin rendering the pin useless. The pin was still stuck in the spinner but now had threads cut into it, allowing it to unscrew on the hub.
I don't know why this happened but I wish someone could restore my confidence in keeping the wheels on the car. I checked to see if the correct knock off hub was installed where it should be, it was. The drivers side (left hand) spinner must be rotated counter clockwise to be removed, just as the spinner is marked.

Barry;

Had a similar problem with my 1963... actually I had two sets of OK's, an older set which came with the car and a new set which I bought... I found a couple of things to be true..

1) The chrome cones from various manufacturers are not the same. Some are taller then others which can lead to problems... make sure that you have the correct cones

2) Don't use the enclosed lead hammer... it's nice to look at but that's about all

3) Use anti-seize compound on the spinners and spindle threads... I use that copper compound

4) Get yourself a KO wrench - That guy up in Hamburg NY sells them as does LI Corvette (the two are different) This tool will make the job a lot easier and safer

When I install my wheels (I've been doing it a lot lately) I put everything together up in the air and then snug the spinner with a rubber dead blow hammer... 7-8 good whacks will do the trick. When the wheel is back on the ground I use the KO wrench and a 6 pound hand sledge... about a dozen blows... you will get about another 1/4 turn... If you do this you will have no problems.. Make sure you have your left and right sides correctly in place... Tightening to the rear and loosening to the front is correct.

Have fun!

Joel

[Bill C.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Barry,

I have these same Western Wheel repros on my '64. They are the early 1980's vintage and I have never ever had a problem with them. I've driven on several cross country NCRS Road Tours and never had a problem with the pins.

May I ask what installation steps/procedure you use when putting them on and tighteneing them? There may be something in your installation procedure that needs to change.

A couple of questions for you?

1. Do you snug(tighten) the wheels up as best you can before putting the full weight of the car back on the wheel/tire? This procedure helps to align and center the wheel on the adapter and insure that the wheel is relatively "tight" before putting the the weight of the car back on the wheel/adapter assembly.

2. When tighten the wheel with the full weight of the car on the wheel/tire, do you align the spinner and adapter alignment slots to the closest (easiest to get to) alignment slot after the wheel is snug tight or do you continue to tighten the wheel until it will align with the next available alignment slot? I tighten it until I stop getting movement, usually after about 4 to 8 blows with the hammer.

3. What type of hammer do you use?
a. original type lead hammer
b. larger 6# aftermarket lead hammer from PAragon, CC, etc
c. dead blow/"clown" hammer

4. When installing the anti-rotation pins; are they loose fitting when you push them into the alignment slot? They should go easily, I usually seat them all the way into the slot by gently tapping on them with a small ball peen hammer. I after installing the pin I take the lead hammer and give it one blow in the "on" direction to be sure the pin is has some slight pressure on it and can't back out on its own. I have done this ever since I have purchased the wheels and have never had an issue with the wheels coming loose.

4. Do you place a "tell-tale" line with a white marker across the top of the knock-off cone and spinner so that you can see if the spinner is coming loose after driving the car? This is a great way to tell after 25, 50 or 100 miles of driving the car whether the wheel is coming loose. My repro wheels have not been off the my car since June 2005 and have logged over 6,000 mile since then and I have not had any problems. I make it a point to monitor them often. This is where the "tell-tale" mark I refered to comes in handy.

I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any other question that you may have. Again myself and many others here on the TDB have had no problems with repro or original KO wheels coming loose. It's all in how they are installed and monitored.

Best of luck,

James West
Omaha, NE.

Agree here!
First be sure you are using the correct long lug nuts.
The mounting lugs must be lightly lubed to ensure the wheel does not bind on them, dry pins do not slide well on sticky cast aluminum, light oil or grease of ones choice on the spinner seat and threads, install wheel with spinner "snugly" and ensure the wheel is seated square. Then let the car down so that some weight is on the tire, just enough to stop the suspension from absorbing your hits to the spinner, then finally, let the full weight down, then roll the car back and forth a few times to ensure the suspension is now square also and not trying to push the tire sideways on the pavement, especially true at the rears. Then really shock it until you cannot go further, if using the newer wheels with pins, you need to go further to get one slot aligned, as said, these will not stop an improperly installed wheel from backing off, they are only there for lawyers tools.

I make my own large lead hammers using a 1 1/4 " pipe with a "T" on the end, take a large Progresso tomato sauce can, cut it 1/2 way down the side, open it a bit to allow the pipe to fit and center the pipe with the "T" centered inside. Braze up the seams. Then I heat enough lead to fill the can, peel the can away after it cools and "walla", a hammer that safely "gits 'er done without trying to beat the spinner to death, the extra large hammer weight does its job! After the hammer gets worn down to getting close to the "T" one just melts it all off and makes it again! The lead is available from McMaster -Carr or other sources.
Bill

[Jean C.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Barry, installing the spinners is sort of like a golf drive, hit it like you live... hard and long. Use a big hammer. My Western KO's, circa 1980's, have never come loose in over 50K miles.
Best regards,

[Wayne P.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

Would anyone have the torque specks for the hub that the spinner attaches to ? 65 LBS ? It was also mentioned in one of the posts about putting the correct wheel on the proper side . Are they not all the same.
I thought only the spinners were made for left and right side. Would you also have a part number for correct lug nuts ? ( Paragon part number 2530k 46$ ) I use the cobra lead hammer mother thumper.Thanks for the advice in advance.

[Paul H.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

One thing I do (after installing the knockoffs correctly) that gives me piece of mind is to mark with a crayon the outer edge of the wheels with a little dot aligned with each of the 3 bars of the spinner. At a glance you can quickly determine that the spinner hasn't moved. Sure saves alot of unnecessary hammering.

[Jack H.]

Re: Knock Off Wheel coming loose

The most common mistake(s) in mounting KO wheels (original or reproduction) are:

(1) Getting LH and RH sides reversed.

(2) Failing to follow factory original torque specs.

Item 2 is more common with reproduction wheels that feature locking 'safety pins'... Folks mount the wheels, torque the spinners ONCE and then insert the safety pins. That's a NO-NO!

The Corvette shop manual clearly instructs you to mount the wheels, torque them with EIGHT HARD blows of the lead hammer, then re-torque every 100 miles for the first 500 miles of use. You can't re-torque properly with the safety pins installed and you'll wind up with mounting 'slop' that's masked by the safety pins + the pins are going to distort BADLY as a result.

It'd sure be nice if folks that sold reproduction KO wheels provided installation instructions with them, but NOOOOOOOOO! They rely on owners to have read the GM service literature.