Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

[Kevin G.]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
01.29.09

Re: Replacement Trim or VIN Tags
The practice of replacing original manufacturer's trim or VIN tags is inconsistent with Bloomington Gold's philosophy, not to mention being illegal in many states. Although we have penalized owners in the past for such conduct, our position will now become more firm.
Beginning with our 2009 event, any Corvette determined to have a non-authentic manufacturer's trim or VIN tag will be ineligible for any level of Bloomington Gold Certification.
Furthermore, any owner who (over time) enters more than a single Corvette with replacement trim or VIN tags will be permanently excused from any and all future Bloomington Gold judging events. Please be careful!

Regards,

Kevin

[Gene M.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

Sounds good, about time somebody started policing this. Now if Bloomington keeps track of the VIN so if the car is sold to an unsuspecting sole he can be notified at time of registration to save him the issue of finding out on the show field.

Do they do the same for stampers?

[Jack C.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

No problem if you have the "Real Thing".

[Jay G.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

No problem if you have the "Real Thing".

Policy that should have been inacted yrs ago. If any questions or excuses regarding a trim Tag or Vin Tag arises. Said vechile should be disqualified. For the general public, if that cars for sale run away. The trim tag repos for 69 Camaros RE: Color changes, X code deviations etc. have been going on for years. Haing owned a 69 X22 Camaro 396 (real one). I'm sick of the fake X66, Z X33 and X77 etc. Hopefully this type of rule restricitions may weed out the fake cars. Can only hope.

[E S.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

No problem if you have the "Real Thing".

Jack-I agree fully-But how do we "prove" the "real thing"?
Unless I'm mistaken, our cars are not judged for authenticity,but only for the "appearance" of authenticity. Correct?
In other words- that '67 435,or '65 FI, that goes through the roof at the national auctions could have started life as a 300 HP 3-spd.(nothing wrong with a 300 HP 3-spd;by the way) before being re-stored,re-stamped, and re-produced into a "rare", highly desireable car, and given the "seal of approval" by our judging organizations.
What is "proof", by the way?

[Jack C.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

I guess I was too quick to respond. I purchased mine about six years ago and was lucky enough to get a low milage car with all doc and original paint that appears to be the real McCoy. Buyer beware!

[Joe L.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

I think the policy is generally a good one. However, while this might "ferret out" cars with REPRODUCTION tags, it's not going to do much about a situation in which an original tag is TRANSFERRED from one car to another. I think that's the really big issue here.

1960-64 are just about the only years in which a transferred VIN tag might be discernable. For the remaining year VIN tags as well as all 63-82 trim tags, it's just way easy to do a transfer in an indiscernable manner. Let's face it----these tags, and especially trim tags, were never designed with any sort of real "tamper-proof" technology. That's how it was done and nothing can change that now.

[Dick W.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

I can see Ebabes now! The $500 trim tags now go to $5,000, the best combinations will go to $10k plus. Hmmm, black 67 roadster with either a 400 A/C or 435 hp, $20k? for a tag

Seriously, it will be a problem to find a tag with a build date that works with the vehicle VIN. Quite a few judges have build quite extensive data bases with VIN's, build dates, and body #'s. Not quite as easy as one might think to get thru judging.

[Pat M.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

Jack-I agree fully-But how do we "prove" the "real thing"?
Unless I'm mistaken, our cars are not judged for authenticity,but only for the "appearance" of authenticity. Correct?
In other words- that '67 435,or '65 FI, that goes through the roof at the national auctions could have started life as a 300 HP 3-spd.(nothing wrong with a 300 HP 3-spd;by the way) before being re-stored,re-stamped, and re-produced into a "rare", highly desireable car, and given the "seal of approval" by our judging organizations.
What is "proof", by the way?

Wouldn't such a "reproduced" car, IF DETECTED in the opinion of the judges, be considered counterfeit and fraudulent, regardless of how skillful the "reproduction" appears? This is not like making the paint look authentic; this is turning a car into something that it never was and holding it out as such, which I didn't think was acceptable to NCRS.
And while I agree that it is difficult to provide such "proof" of any car, one can cross-check documentation, past owner information, photos, build date info vs. VIN number, clues found on the car, and expert opinions to come as close as one can to "prove" a particular car.

[Edward B.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

Long overdue - the entire trim tag/VIN tag matter has gotten out of hand.

[Jeff G.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

This is an excellent topic and one I think could shape the charter of NCRS. Let's face it; there are many talented people out there that could build car around a trim tag and VIN. And more talented people willing to make tank stickers, POPs, or whatever else you want. After all, I even read on a thread in NCRS forum that someone knew about a car that is a Duntov that began life as something else.

On average these cars are 40 years old give or take. The mission now becomes how do we preserve these cars and the integrity of this hobby for the next 40 years. I believe that NCRS and Bloomington will play a bigger part in creating and maintaining the history of any particular vehicle. I know that Bloomington maintains all their judging records so that people can research the judging results of VINs going back in time. This judging history is and should be a permanent credential for a particular car / VIN, just like any other original documentation. Perhaps a collaborative effort between these 2 organizations to have a master database of judging results would be a future counter measure to "forgeries" in the coming decades.
Thanks for listening,
Jeff

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

01.29.09

Re: Replacement Trim or VIN Tags
The practice of replacing original manufacturer's trim or VIN tags is inconsistent with Bloomington Gold's philosophy, not to mention being illegal in many states. Although we have penalized owners in the past for such conduct, our position will now become more firm.
Beginning with our 2009 event, any Corvette determined to have a non-authentic manufacturer's trim or VIN tag will be ineligible for any level of Bloomington Gold Certification.
Furthermore, any owner who (over time) enters more than a single Corvette with replacement trim or VIN tags will be permanently excused from any and all future Bloomington Gold judging events. Please be careful!

Regards,

Kevin

NCRS should do the same. I would go one step further. If the car dose not have the factory SN# & trim tag it should not be judged. I know of a 67 435 Conv. that was built from the original owners paper work. The car was presented as a theft recovery & judged. The original Corvette was stolen but never recovered. It was a home made pieces & parts car.
KEN

[Paul B.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

...I don't think it really matters anymore. The bubble has burst, GM's in the toilet, the economy is six feet under along with the Dow too.

...I'm suprised there's still a Bloomington to attend to.

...isn't this now really pointless as probably 90% or more of the cars have already gotten through Bloomington, then onto Barrett and so on???

...should have been done 20yrs ago.

[Jeff G.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

I think does matter big time, just like it does for any hobby where people collect and pay big prices for originality and or condition. Collectable markets of all types; coins, sports cards, paintings, you name it and they all have delt with forgeries. From the things I have read on NCRS, the judging standards and knowledge base has increased significantly over the years. There is more than enough knowledge within this community to take a stand move this to a higher level. I would volunteer to help this organization any way I possibly could to establish standards and future plans in this area. To that end I think we all would gladly contribute...

[Steven B.]

Re: Two Strikes you're out at Bloomington

I assume the rule also applies to cars that have State manufactured and suppied/attached VINs. Years ago when I moved form one Indiana city to another my '57 was inspected by a police officer (Carmel) and he questioned my VIN tag saying it should be riveted on and it looked home made. I convinced him otherwise and did not have to get a piece of tin riveted to my door jam. (My VIN tag is the original attached with the original screws.)

IF a car has a State mfgd/attached VIN will it be accepted for judging?