Camshaft Identification

[Harry S.]

I came across a new camshaft for a good price. It is suppose to be a 12364051 / 3896929. Are there any castings on the cam to help validate what it is?

Here is what I see between many of the lobes: CWC, F2 06, K with a 34 beneath, USA with a 1 beneath,C9 D9.

Does the CWC represent Crane?

Thanks

[Joe L.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

I came across a new camshaft for a good price. It is suppose to be a 12364051 / 3896929. Are there any castings on the cam to help validate what it is?

Here is what I see between many of the lobes: CWC, F2 06, K with a 34 beneath, USA with a 1 beneath,C9 D9.

Does the CWC represent Crane?

Thanks

Harry-----


"CWC" represents the division of Textron Corporation that manufactures camshaft CORES for most of the OEM's as well as aftermarket manufacturers like Crane and others.

There's no way to ID the camshaft from the numbers you've supplied since most of the CWC cores are more-or-less generic. So, they are ground into a lot of different finished camshafts. Original GM camshaft cores from days of old, usually cast at GM foundries, were usually specific to the finished camshaft so the cams could be identified by the casting numbers. GM cams for the last 20 years, or so, are often CWC cores.

Usually, camshafts ground from "generic" cores will have the identfying finished part identification stamped on the end of the cam.

[Harry S.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

Joe, thanks. No more numbers on the cam.

I'll keep looking.

Cheers

[Duke W.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

Harry-----



Original GM camshaft cores from days of old, usually cast at GM foundries, were usually specific to the finished camshaft so the cams could be identified by the casting numbers.

The number on old GM camshafts is not a "casting number." It is the finished camshaft number. When the pin was added it became a "camshaft assembly" and got another part number.

For example the '67-up base engine finished number is 3896930, which is cast from a unique core. When the pin was added it became 3896929, which is what was sold through GMPD. They only sold this "assembly" not the finished camshaft without the indexing pin.

The detailed finished dimension data is on drawing number 3896030, and it also includes dimensions for the as cast lobes, but there is no unique drawing number/part number for the casting. Instructions on the drawing state that the finished camshaft number must be in the casting.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

The number on old GM camshafts is not a "casting number." It is the finished camshaft number. When the pin was added it became a "camshaft assembly" and got another part number.

For example the '67-up base engine finished number is 3896930, which is cast from a unique core. When the pin was added it became 3896929, which is what was sold through GMPD. They only sold this "assembly" not the finished camshaft without the indexing pin.

The detailed finished dimension data is on drawing number 3896030, and it also includes dimensions for the as cast lobes, but there is no unique drawing number/part number for the casting. Instructions on the drawing state that the finished camshaft number must be in the casting.

Duke

Duke------


Any number which is a feature of the casting is commonly referred to as a casting number (i.e. part number for the casting). In some cases, as is the case with the camshafts, the casting number (i.e. part number for the casting) may be the same as a finished part number. In other cases, it may not. Often, but not always, the reason for a difference between a casting number (i.e. part number for the casting) and the finished part number is that more than one finished part number is made from the casting. In that case, the casting number may be different than either of the finished part numbers OR it may be the same as one of them. Since these early camshaft cores were specific as to finished part number, it's entirely consistent that the casting number (or, part number for the casting) and finished part number are the same.

There are many cast parts which have as a feature of the casting a casting number (or, part number for the casting) which is the same as the finished part number, even though the finished part number represents a piece which has many machining operations performed to it subsequent to casting. Many exhaust manifolds and cast engine brackets are examples which immediately come to mind.

[Duke W.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

If the part number embedded in the casting is the finished part number then there is no specific casting number.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

If the part number embedded in the casting is the finished part number then there is no specific casting number.

Duke

Duke----

The term "casting number" is a term in the vernacular; it is not an "official term" used by GM. "Part number" is an "official term" used by GM. A "casting number" is actually a part number for the casting and, as I described, may also be the same as the finished part number.

Look at it this way: if you had in your hand an UNMACHINED camshaft core
with the a certain part number on it, what would that piece be? It's not yet the finished piece but it has a number on it. Yes, I know that unmachined camshaft cores were never available in SERVICE. Nevertheless, they did once exist at the foundry and engine plants.

[Duke W.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

Duke----

The term "casting number" is a term in the vernacular; it is not an "official term" used by GM. "Part number" is an "official term" used by GM. A "casting number" is actually a part number for the casting and, as I described, may also be the same as the finished part number.

Look at it this way: if you had in your hand an UNMACHINED camshaft core
with the a certain part number on it, what would that piece be? It's not yet the finished piece but it has a number on it. Yes, I know that unmachined camshaft cores were never available in SERVICE. Nevertheless, they did once exist at the foundry and engine plants.

The finished camshaft drawing requires the finished camshaft number to be part of the casting. There was no separate drawing for the casting as the as-cast lobe contour is included on the finished drawing.

The camshaft core can be indentified by this finished camshaft number and this number is referenced in the parts catalog, as the "ID number", which is correct, but it's still not a "casting number" in the sense that some parts did start from a "casting number", which likely had a drawing, and were then finished to different finished part numbers, like exhaust manifolds.

It's a fine point, but IMO, significant.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

Re: Camshaft Identification

Duke----

The term "casting number" is a term in the vernacular; it is not an "official term" used by GM. "Part number" is an "official term" used by GM. A "casting number" is actually a part number for the casting and, as I described, may also be the same as the finished part number.

Look at it this way: if you had in your hand an UNMACHINED camshaft core
with the a certain part number on it, what would that piece be? It's not yet the finished piece but it has a number on it. Yes, I know that unmachined camshaft cores were never available in SERVICE. Nevertheless, they did once exist at the foundry and engine plants.

GM did supply unground cam castings if you knew the correct person to contact.