Duntov Without A "Frame Off"? - NCRS Discussion Boards

Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

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  • Bill O.
    Expired
    • April 1, 2006
    • 542

    Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

    I’d like to have the opinion of those who have gone through Flight Judging with a ’61-’62 (or maybe any C-1) or judged one, where the car has not gone through a “frame off” restoration. I’ve read through the applicable TIM&JG and the judging sheets but can’t quite get a fix on just how much of the underside of the car is subject to inspection.

    Reason is, I’m thinking of trying for a Duntov Award but began to worry that may not be achievable given that the car has only a “frame on” restoration. There has been a fair amount of detailing under the car, as shown, and the fender wells, nose and engine compartment are in good shape. The car has always scored at 98% at NCRS Chapter events and at Bloomington Gold and Gold/Spinner/Triple Crown. And after each, deducts are always worked on. But the car is enjoyed as a summer driver so it may be impractical to think of it as Duntov quality.

    By the way, it’s signed up for NCRS Regional judging so we’ll soon know better….but in the meantime I just wanted benefit of your experience and recommendations as I have so few reference points.

    Any input is appreciated.

    Bill
    (Red paint overspray on floor from stencil was removed)
    Last edited by Bill O.; September 27, 2010, 08:07 PM.
  • Pat M.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • April 1, 2006
    • 1575

    #2
    Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

    My Duntov 70 (not a C1 obviously) had a body-off resto 5 years ago. Yet the underside looks comparable to yours, I guess 'cause I drive it at least once a week. Also, even though the underside was clean, but not perfectly clean, I don't think I lost a single point for dirt, grease or grime at any meet. So, I would think your car could do it too, even though it was not a body-off.
    By the by, nice member number. I didn't beat ya by much!
    Last edited by Pat M.; February 25, 2009, 05:22 PM.

    Comment

    • Greg G.
      Frequent User
      • September 30, 1994
      • 61

      #3
      Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

      I have a 65 and got the Duntov without doing a frame off. I did the resto over a couple of years and would do one area at a time during the winter and drive it during the summer. I did take all the suspension apart and detailed as much as the underside as is possible. Remember that the NCRS encourages driving your car and should not take off points for light dirt do to driving it. Over all it's doable but sometimes I think it would of been easier to pull the body.

      Good Luck,

      Greg

      Comment

      • William L.
        Very Frequent User
        • December 1, 1988
        • 944

        #4
        Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

        Bill; Just take it one step at a time. Get your 97 or higher at a Regional. Then go for your PV, to me that is the tough nut to crack. The Duntov will come if you get that far,just my 2cents worth.
        Bill Lacy
        1967 427/435 National Top Flight Bloomington Gold
        1998 Indy Pacecar

        Comment

        • Chuck L.
          Very Frequent User
          • July 31, 1996
          • 260

          #5
          Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

          Bill, from what I've seen of 62 "bottoms", including my old one, you have a beautiful car. If the rest of the car is this good, Why worry!
          Chuck Lyman
          Kansas City Chapter

          Comment

          • Dennis C.
            NCRS Past Judging Chairman
            • January 1, 1984
            • 2409

            #6
            Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

            Agree with Chuck - I've seen some "body offs" that don't look a lot better than yours. Go for it... Dennis

            Comment

            • Dan H.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • July 31, 1977
              • 1369

              #7
              Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

              Bill, that is one SWEET car! I feel the pain of many hours 'looking up' and doing it the hard way! GO FOR IT!!!
              Dan
              1964 Red FI Coupe, DUNTOV '09
              Drove the 64 over 5000 miles to three Regionals and the San Jose National, one dust storm and 40 lbs of bugs!

              Comment

              • Roy B.
                Expired
                • February 1, 1975
                • 7044

                #8
                Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                Your bottom looks great , NCRS in courage's people to drive their Corvette which I do but they will deduct for road dirt , wear and oil drips , it's just the hit you must take for driving it. Try cleaning it up as best you can before judging.

                Comment

                • Bill O.
                  Expired
                  • April 1, 2006
                  • 542

                  #9
                  Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                  Pat, Greg, William, Chuck, Dennis, Dan and Roy:

                  Thanks a million for your comments...gives me courage.
                  Some more pictures of the "bottom"

                  Bill
                  Last edited by Bill O.; September 27, 2010, 08:06 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Bill O.
                    Expired
                    • April 1, 2006
                    • 542

                    #10
                    Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                    I couln't include these two in the last post.
                    Last edited by Bill O.; September 27, 2010, 08:06 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Patrick H.
                      Beyond Control Poster
                      • December 1, 1989
                      • 11643

                      #11
                      Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                      Bill,

                      Many of us think about (or receive) Duntovs with unrestored cars. So, I see no reason to think you couldn't do well with yours.

                      If you pass that 97% at a Regional, then you're fine. I suspect you will, and as others note it's the PV that is the killer.

                      Patrick
                      Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
                      71 "deer modified" coupe
                      72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
                      2008 coupe
                      Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

                      Comment

                      • Edward S.
                        Expired
                        • December 1, 1986
                        • 514

                        #12
                        Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                        My 65 Duntov had a frame off during the late 80's - I got the Duntov in 2003. Just had the undercarraige freshened frame on. I don't think mine looked any better then your pictures indicate. Got the Bloomington in 2005 and triple crown in 2006 - all the while using the car quite often. You already have a triple crown, how bad could it be?
                        It's a hobby, you sound like your going to the chair, take the car for judging and enjoy it. I don't think you mentioned how current your awards are - are you out of time and would need to start from step one again?
                        By the way, after making corrections after the shows I still never scored outside the 97 to 97.9 range - it was always something new. Go for the gusto. Good luck.

                        Comment

                        • Dennis C.
                          NCRS Past Judging Chairman
                          • January 1, 1984
                          • 2409

                          #13
                          Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                          Patrick has got it right. Flight judging is pretty passive...
                          Performance Verification is a heart attack waiting for a player... The best of luck. Dennis

                          Comment

                          • Jack H.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • April 1, 1990
                            • 9906

                            #14
                            Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                            Chapter members here have been 'reversing' the traditional path to MoE (Mark of Excellence) that you give (get the 97.0 Flight Judging Regional qualifier and THEN go for PV).

                            They've had the car judged first at a Chapter meet and then hit the Regional circuit for that elusive PV. After getting the PV under their belt, THEN go for the 97% Flight qualifier. Why?

                            Well, you don't know how many passes you're going to take at the PV nor do you know what weather conditions you'll have to run the PV course under. So, there's a decent chance you might get that exterior stone chip in the paint and/or splash moisture onto frame undercarriage components to promote rust + dirt.

                            So, once the PV is behind you (does it work?), now you can concentrate without distraction on the Flight score (does it look factory fresh?). Seems like the smart campaign strategy to me!

                            Comment

                            • Pat M.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • April 1, 2006
                              • 1575

                              #15
                              Re: Duntov Without A "Frame Off"?

                              Originally posted by Edward Styczynski (10775)
                              By the way, after making corrections after the shows I still never scored outside the 97 to 97.9 range - it was always something new.
                              Originally posted by Jack Humphrey (17100)
                              They've had the car judged first at a Chapter meet and then hit the Regional circuit for that elusive PV. After getting the PV under their belt, THEN go for the 97% Flight qualifier. Why? Well, you don't know how many passes you're going to take at the PV
                              Excellent points. I had the same experience as Ed in that I never got out of the 97% range because several new deductions came up that had never come up at previous meets. And this happened despite the fact that I knew the JG nearly by heart, had closely examined other award winning cars, and constantly discussed every aspect of my car with award winning owners.
                              As to Jack's point, another reason owners should be allowed to do the PV first is because of the 3-year time period in which you must complete the Duntov requirements. After you get the first 97, who knows how many times it'll take the owner to pass PV, as Jack says. Along with not being able to attend every meet, it may take so long that the window passes and you'll have to start all over again. Starting with PV first, it is much more likely you'll get the two other 97s within the 3 year period.

                              Comment

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