Re-stamp?

[Todd L.]

In a previous post concerning judging standards, it was mentioned that a re-stamp can now earn some points. (sorry if I misquote) What is a re-stamp?

Todd

[Jack H.]

Re: Re-stamp?

The phrase 'restamp' refers to a 'restoration' engine that was executed by taking similar core components (engine block) from a donor car and 'adjusting' the donor block to make it appear to be the car's factory original engine component. Specifically, removing the factory original stamped numbers from the donor car block's engine stamp pad and replacing them with 'reproduction' stamped numbers that agree with those that would have appeared on the factory original Corvette engine.

There's nothing 'new' about the judging policy that allows replacement engine block components to receive partial or full judging credit! It's always been NCRS policy that the judging process is a matter of 'appearance'. If the restamp job is done SO WELL that it 'appears' to be factory original, it passes judging scrutiny.

The process by which an engine block is judged for originality and the partial credit factors given along the way for this/that aspect of the 'restoration' work are published in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual, Standard Deduction Section.

[Todd L.]

Re: Re-stamp?

If a re-stamp is so well that a judge can not tell do you get full points for that portion of the judging? Do you have to tell the judges it is a re-stamp? If not could a person who originally had a small block now make their car a BB and pass it off as such? Then a person could also change the trim tag of the car to make any combination of colors he/she likes.
Kind of scares me, when I actually do have the money and go looking for a 66 how do I know I'm getting what I pay for?

Todd

[Tom H.]

Re: Re-stamp?

Kind of scares me, when I actually do have the money and go looking for a 66 how do I know I'm getting what I pay for?

Todd

Unless you are buying from the original owner. Most times you don't. That's why good history and extensive documentation adds a premium to the value of a said to be real car.

[Jack H.]

Re: Re-stamp?

"If a re-stamp is so well that a judge can not tell do you get full points for that portion of the judging?"

Yes

"Do you have to tell the judges it is a re-stamp?"

At NCRS, the 'Green Sheet' in the judging score sheet package has a section for owner disclosure: 'Declaration/Exception' where he/she can comment on various aspects of the car's restoration. E.g. 'NOM' means non-original motor.

The Catch-22 is NCRS rules PROHIBIT judges from seeing/using these disclosure comments as they work the Flight judging process... They go solely by what they see vs. what they know.

"If not could a person who originally had a small block now make their car a BB and pass it off as such?"

That is specifically frowned on because the owner is NOT 'restoring' the car...he/she is making something that was never made by GM/Chevrolet... But, the truth is, it HAS been done.

"Then a person could also change the trim tag of the car to make any combination of colors he/she likes."

That's why NCRS has a new rule regarding trim tag authenticity, team leader inspection and barring a car from receiving Top Flight status IF the trim tag is determined to have been replaced with a 'restoration' part.

Roy Sinor and Al Grenning devoted SIGNIFICANT study to the issue of trim tag originality (unfortunately, ALL focus was on mid-year cars). The bottom line of their study concluded these tags were generated by the SAME addressograph/multigraph machine located at the St. Louis factory and its font is unique (like the FBI identifying the source typewritter used to write a ransom letter).

One drawback to the verification issue is there WAS a GM authorized program to re-issue VIN and trim tags via the zone dealer network (correct errors and/or replace missing tags). These were made on other A/M machine(s) and ARE legitimate... So, those cars 'can' be called, when they're NOT the product of owner restoration deceipt... No system is perfect.

"Kind of scares me, when I actually do have the money and go looking for a 66 how do I know I'm getting what I pay for?"

Well, you first need to get a grip on reality. IF it's so important to you that a car be correct/original, then shift your purchase focus to a Star/Bowtie car versus a restored/Flight car. That's why we have two award recognition programs at NCRS: one for restored cars (Flight) and another for unrestored cars (Star/Bowtie).

Remember, IF the car is advertized as being 'restored', you know from the git-go, that it's NOT 100% factory original! The whole judging process (at NCRS, at NCCB, Etc.) is geared toward how closely a given car APPEARS to match known factory original characteristics.

That's why each Flight certificate at NCRS (and the Certification certificate from NCCB) have bold face disclaimer text on them. A liberal paraphrase of the text used is: "Looked good enough to fool us today."

A car is only 'original' ONCE in its life. Therefore, any car that's been restored is guaranteed NOT to be original in all aspects...

[Eric J.]

Re: Re-stamp?

Education is your best insurance. I would guess that if the car was good enough to "fool" a Regional or National Judge after say 2000 then it will most likely pass judgement anywhere +/- 2%. That's assuming you presented the car for judging. If the car is presented by someone else for judging, even if it was original/correct on that day, there is no gaurantee the car did not shed some of it's so called original parts the day after it left the field. Now I know some members who have been on the judging field have heard or seen stories of cars using "borrowed" pieces like gas caps, air cleaners, tires etc. (Which by the way is against the rules). I have also seen many people remove their "show tires" in the parking lots after the meet. Now if that car gets sold with the driver tires then it has been diminished.

Remember that the Judging award goes with the member not the car. If it scares you then I would suggest you need to invest in all the assorted guides and start reading. I would conclude by saying that if the car has actually been "awarded" a Top Flight your "scare" factor should drop much more then buying a car that has never been judged. Eric

[Brad H.]

Re: Re-stamp?

Jack,
I'm fairly new to this too and your discussion was really helpful. Thanks for taking the time to detail it for the new guys.
Brad Hood

[Stewart A.]

Re: Re-stamp?

Well written Jack.
Stewy

[Mark R.]

Re: Re-stamp?

"Well, you first need to get a grip on reality. IF it's so important to you that a car be correct/original, then shift your purchase focus to a Star/Bowtie car versus a restored/Flight car. That's why we have two award recognition programs at NCRS: one for restored cars (Flight) and another for unrestored cars (Star/Bowtie).

Remember, IF the car is advertized as being 'restored', you know from the git-go, that it's NOT 100% factory original! The whole judging process (at NCRS, at NCCB, Etc.) is geared toward how closely a given car APPEARS to match known factory original characteristics.

That's why each Flight certificate at NCRS (and the Certification certificate from NCCB) have bold face disclaimer text on them. A liberal paraphrase of the text used is: "Looked good enough to fool us today."

A car is only 'original' ONCE in its life. Therefore, any car that's been restored is guaranteed NOT to be original in all aspects...

Jack:

Thanks so much for elegently addressing this entire isssue of originality and some of the assumptions made regarding NCRS and Bloomington Gold awards.

Mark

[Paul K.]

Re: Re-stamp?

Jack

that was a very good post,
Thanks

Paul klemetson