Tire judging question

[Floyd B.]

Tire judging question from someone who is learning.

My example is for a '73 L48:

If the car has seemingly "period correct" originals: in this example they would be either Goodyear Steelgaurd or Firestone Steel Radial 500 GR70-15's. They could be solid white raised letters or white wall tires. Assuming all of the other details noted in the TIM&JG are correct, EXCEPT for the date code in the TIN - I would be inclined to deduct 2 originality points for each of the five tires for a total deduction of 10 points from the possible 30.

If the tires were good quality repops I would be inclined to deduct 3 points for each of the five tires for a total deduction of 15 points from the possible 30.

Of course, having original, correctly date coded tires gets you all 30 originality points regardless of their condition.

Does this sound reasonable? Am I being too hard on the repops?

Thanx

[Michael W.]

Re: Tire judging question

Floyd,

There are no repops for any C3 Corvette tire after '72 MY so it's difficult to answer your question.

The two point deduct for inappropriate date code sounds correct. Note also that original tires could be blackwall in addition to WW or white letter.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Tire judging question

Tire judging question from someone who is learning.

My example is for a '73 L48:

If the car has seemingly "period correct" originals: in this example they would be either Goodyear Steelgaurd or Firestone Steel Radial 500 GR70-15's. They could be solid white raised letters or white wall tires. Assuming all of the other details noted in the TIM&JG are correct, EXCEPT for the date code in the TIN - I would be inclined to deduct 2 originality points for each of the five tires for a total deduction of 10 points from the possible 30.

If the tires were good quality repops I would be inclined to deduct 3 points for each of the five tires for a total deduction of 15 points from the possible 30.

Of course, having original, correctly date coded tires gets you all 30 originality points regardless of their condition.

Does this sound reasonable? Am I being too hard on the repops?

Thanx

So you would only deduct 1 more point for origional tires than repops. You are being to hard on the people with original tires. REPOPS have dot & other issues. I guess you have no original tires for your car. You are too hard on the original tires not the repops

[Patrick H.]

Re: Tire judging question

Whether or not you would deduct for the date code depends whether or not you have the ability to discuss with the owner exactly why his date code is not correct and how an original should look.

It also depends whether you want to "fight that battle" with them. I have found that at a Chapter meet it usually isn't worth my time, and at a Regional there are enough "Duntov Award" prospectants that it's not worth fighting about.

Patrick

[Floyd B.]

Re: Tire judging question

It sounds like the consensus is that a 2 point deduction per tire for the incorrect TIN is too hard. 0 to 1 is more reasonable depending on the level of the event. I guess it's pretty much a waste of time/effort/money to worry about the TIN.

[Mike M.]

Re: Tire judging question

Whoa, Floyd.
Those numbers seem to be a bit strong.

Firstly, from your description, it appears all five tires are alike, they would be judged per the Judging Sheet as a group of five @ 30 points, not individually.

Second, the Judging Protocol would be to apply the FDICC method to determine the appropriate deduction.

Third, these are "Original" tires with only the "Date" being NTP, thereby, 1 out of the 5, or, 20% of 30 points would result in a 6 point deduction for the set in that line item.

As for the Re-pops, the "Standard Deduction" table would apply.
HaND

[Michael W.]

Re: Tire judging question

As for the Re-pops, the "Standard Deduction" table would apply.
HaND

The key is that there are no repops for '73, so it's rather a moot point.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Tire judging question

Judging 73 tries is alot harder than any other. Blackwalls and white stripe with incorrect dates in flight judging I think we don't judge the date at all. Only the spare date is judgeed. Raised white letters were not installed on any 73 before Jan. 73 and for the rest of the model year firestone 500's had the ( shoe-shield) white in color. Any firestone tire made after about the 33rd week of 73 the shield was black. This is the tire you see on the field as white shield tires are very rare.
I had a sack of 500's at Carlisle and someone from Firestone took pictures of the tires they wanted to forget and was told by their boss none were left in public hands.
No 73 repos as Mike said.
Also no GR70-15's so the size is wrong
The stripe or size of the letters not the same on todays tires.
Today Goodyear or Firestones will cost you 60% and if the judge takes off less I think you got a gift.

[James W.]

Re: Tire judging question

I think the key is going back to Mike's post, since it doesn't matter what year or tire is being judged, it's the method and the reasoning behind it. Nice post, Mike. New judges need that information.

Jim

[Floyd B.]

Re: Tire judging question

I think the key is going back to Mike's post, since it doesn't matter what year or tire is being judged, it's the method and the reasoning behind it. Nice post, Mike. New judges need that information.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for capturing the essence of my question much better than I did. I can see that I chose a really bad example to work with.

My question was meant to be more hypothetical and focused on the methodology. Mike M's post was indeed helpful and I now know what I need to go study up on to improve my judging skills.

Lyle,

Do you know if the '73 - '74 TIM&JG has been corrected in the latest edition? I have the second edition - the one I used when working on my '73 - and on page 54 it states "The only available size is GR70-15"

Thanx

[Mike M.]

Re: Tire judging question

Yes, Michael, I noted that comment in your first post in this thread and feel differently about your follow-up comment.
Since Floyd's original post mentioned the "Repops", I responded for the benefit of those who are "Looking in" and may have interest in Pre-'73 cars.
Actually, Floyd, I believe your post was quite relevant. In most cases, there are no bad posts. However, "Some animals may be more equal than others".
Thanks, guys for acknowledging that our Judging system is a series of processes with guidlines that are far less arbitrary and subjective than many people think.
Typically, truly experienced Judges recognize the situation and make these calculations, decisions with resulting deductions in an instant, perhaps giving the appearance that the responses or simply being made "Off The Cuff".
HaND

[Harmon C.]

Re: Tire judging question

Jim,

Thanks for capturing the essence of my question much better than I did. I can see that I chose a really bad example to work with.

My question was meant to be more hypothetical and focused on the methodology. Mike M's post was indeed helpful and I now know what I need to go study up on to improve my judging skills.

Lyle,

Do you know if the '73 - '74 TIM&JG has been corrected in the latest edition? I have the second edition - the one I used when working on my '73 - and on page 54 it states "The only available size is GR70-15"

Thanx

When I said their are no GR7015's. I was talking about judging a tire sold today which would be a 225-70-R-15. The book is correct a GR-70-15 is a 73 original size tire if this is what you think is wrong. A replacement today is a 225-70-15 so the numbers and letters are not correct in judging and a deduction is in order.