How long do Tires last?

[Floyd B.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

I sanded - I scrubbed - nothing would make them stay red...

Move to Georgia.

[Jim S.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

As part of my engineering career, I took Advanced Driver Training at the GM Milford Proving Grounds. They had a very special Chevrolet Caprice with a roll cage, 5 point belts, etc. They also had a very sophisticated system of deflating and inflating the tires on that car as it was being driven. They had an instructor with me who had a switch where he could deflate (or inflate) any or all of the tires while we were driving on their huge skid pad. (I think that they called it Black Lake because birds would mistake if for a lake from the air.)

Anyway, as I was driving at 60/70 mph the instructor deflated first one of the front tires. Car was very controllable. Reinflated that tire and let all of the air out of one of the rears. Again very controllable. He let all of the air out of both front tires! Amazingly the car remained very controllable. Finally he let all of the air out of both rears. The car was extremely difficult to control. The rear end squirmed all over the place. Deflating both rear tires was the only time that the car did not seem secure.

I relate the above because based on the above controlled tests, I never could understand how losing one tire could cause cars/trucks to be uncontrollable and crash (such as the Ford Bronco or the Firestone 500 problems).

Now with respect to old tires, one thing that could happen over a period of years could be a chemical reaction inside the tire. (Such as between the tread layer and the tire carcass because they have to be vulcanized together.) Throwing a tread at highway speeds can destroy a Corvette fiberglass fender.

Jim

[Duke W.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

I relate the above because based on the above controlled tests, I never could understand how losing one tire could cause cars/trucks to be uncontrollable and crash (such as the Ford Bronco or the Firestone 500 problems).

Jim

Ever looked at a "driver's training" curriculum? They may as well sell driver's licenses for two-bits and two cereal box tops.

If pilots has such cursory training, airplanes would be crashing every day. Pilot training requires recovery from "unusual attitudes", stalls, and even spins.

I've been driving down stretches of highway in dry, clear weather and seen cars up ahead just spin. Cars don't go out of control on their own. It has to do with poor driver training and lack of attention to the task of driving. I think most of these "spins out of nowhere" are due to the driver being alarmed by some event, then they jerk the wheel (and maybe jam on the brakes at the same time), the car goes into oversteer that they cannot handle, and THEY lose control. This was probably the typical scenario with the tread separations on Ford Explorers.

Some of us have had advanced driver training or racing experience and many of us learned how to handle cars at the ragged edge of control in our youth, so most of us could probably handle a sudden single tire failure without serious incident, but this does not apply to the driving population at large.

And all of us know that at least about half the drivers on the road are totally preoccupied with something OTHER than driving, so if an emergency suddens appears, they simply cannot handle it.

Duke

[Terry M.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

Amen to all you say Duke,

Add that most of the public does not maintain their vehicles, and when they ask the car to perform as originally designed they often can't.

I'm thinking of brake systems that are not properly maintained, and the unconscious driver has no idea that one or more of their brakes is not functioning. Slam on the brakes and the car pulls violently one direction or another, and the driver blames the car manufacturer for producing a poor performing vehicle. Result car spins in clear dry weather.

Consider how many drive on worn or mismatched tires. Need maximum braking -- It'll never happen.

None of us here would do those kinds of things, but I can tell you based on what I see at work and school -- we should all be in fear of the other drivers and vehicles on the roads. Regardless their driving skills, the heaps they are driving are deplorable. Given the economy, I don't expect any improvement soon. In fact I would expect worse sooner.

I won't even go into the uninsured or under-insured drivers because that will lead to those who drive with no valid license. At that point the discussion will take on a distinctly political note. I just don't want to go there.

Those of you who live in communities with well managed safety inspections may have a superior automotive population to my state that now has no safety inspection program. We used to have one in Chicago many years ago, but corruption caused it to become ineffective, and it was wisely abandoned. I have no hope that an honest safety inspection could be implimented in this state any time soon, if ever.

[Pat M.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

My 96 LT4 has its original tires and has spent most of its life in a dark garage.

I still have my 96 LT4's original tires as well, which have had a similar easy life, and they still look great after about 8K miles. But I took them off the car in '08 out of concern for their age.
As for Duke and Terry's spot-on comments, the phrase "defensive driving" comes to mind.

[Jim S.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

With the exception of the Caprice, the Advanced Driver Training facility at Milford had ordinary Malibus and other GM vehicles for driver training. One particular maneuver was to drive up to and over a curb at 65 mph. They had a curbing about 1/4 mile long built into a portion of Black Lake. You would drive your ordinary Malibu (or what ever) GM car parallel to the curbing and you were expected to drive over it. If you took the slow approach your tire met the curbing, deflected, and then you suddenly and unexpectedly "jumped" over the curb. Very exciting maneuver. However, if you backed off and steered right into the curbing (even going 65!) you could drive over it in a very controlled manner.

The thing that stood out was that they were using ordinary GM vehicles day in and day out. Some of those cars "jumped" that curb 50 to 100 times (maybe more). The car stood up to that abuse with really no ill affects. I came away with a very high appreciation as to the handling and durability that was designed into even the very base GM cars (let alone the Vette.)

Jim

[Joe R.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

Gentlemen,

I have a set of tires (5) from a 63 that look great, have been in a humidity controlled environment since being taken off. And the only laps they will every get is rolling on and off a trailer.

This is a bit extreme for years to use as an example but I can assure these tires would not make it thru a PV or a jog to the malt shop.

And they will never be asked to anything but smile.

JR

[Bill M.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

I relate the above because based on the above controlled tests, I never could understand how losing one tire could cause cars/trucks to be uncontrollable and crash (such as the Ford Bronco or the Firestone 500 problems).

Jim

Car and Driver did a test at Milan Dragway near Detroit where they deflated a tire on an Explorer while driving. Their conclusion was that a tire deflating at normal speeds is a non-event. I vaguely remember that in one test they did it with no hands on the steering wheel.

People must panic, drive off the road, dig the rim in and roll it? Dunno.

[Terry M.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

Try deflating the tire and hitting the brakes hard -- then swing the steering wheel hard toward the shoulder. I suspect that is what paniced drivers do when they realize they have lost a tire.

[Jack H.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

OK, I'll tell you why drivers 'lost it' with Firestone 500's. The proving grounds 'simulation' was just that, a simulation, NOT an actual blow-out. Basically, your tires simply deflated but remained structurely intact. Now, to the meat of my story.

I was a sales manager for Texas Instruments driving from Chicago back to Detroit to conduct an interview of a perspective employee. I was running my '76 Ford T-Bird factory equipped with Firestone 500's and pushing 80 mph as I drove through Detroit's NW suburbs.

There was a 'noise' and IMMEDIATELY the steering wheel took on a life of its own spinning through my hands until it hit the rightmost lock. The car spun 360, 2-3 times, flipped up on its side and rolled over into the center median on its roof.

Fortunately, I didn't hit anybody and others (including a cop) stopped to extract me from the inverted car. I had it 'scraped off the road and cancelled my luncheon interview (scheduled for just after 1:00PM so the restaurant would be slightly off-peak in traffic).

The tread on the RF tire had separated. One steel belt stayed on the tire, the other broke loose but did NOT totally fly off the tire with the tread. It 'snaked' around, wiped out the inner fender and wrapped around the suspension causing the wheel to crank all the way to the right.

The rest of the story (Texas Instruments vs. Firestone) will go untold due to the settlement agreement. But, when I got home that evening my mouth fell open...the incident was a GOOD thing!!!

My interview was set for a restaurant NW of Detroit, Machus Red Fox. The report was Jimmy Hoffa had been abucted from the restaurant parking lot at 1:09 PM that afternoon.

If the Firestone tire hadn't failed, I'd have been crossing the parking lot to the restaurant at EXACTLY the wrong time!

BTW, Firestone service techs, engineers and legal staff were AMAZED... The defective tire did NOT lose air during the incident!

[Kenneth B.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

OK, I'll tell you why drivers 'lost it' with Firestone 500's. The proving grounds 'simulation' was just that, a simulation, NOT an actual blow-out. Basically, your tires simply deflated but remained structurely intact. Now, to the meat of my story.

I was a sales manager for Texas Instruments driving from Chicago back to Detroit to conduct an interview of a perspective employee. I was running my '76 Ford T-Bird factory equipped with Firestone 500's and pushing 80 mph as I drove through Detroit's NW suburbs.

There was a 'noise' and IMMEDIATELY the steering wheel took on a life of its own spinning through my hands until it hit the rightmost lock. The car spun 360, 2-3 times, flipped up on its side and rolled over into the center median on its roof.

Fortunately, I didn't hit anybody and others (including a cop) stopped to extract me from the inverted car. I had it 'scraped off the road and cancelled my luncheon interview (scheduled for just after 1:00PM so the restaurant would be slightly off-peak in traffic).

The tread on the RF tire had separated. One steel belt stayed on the tire, the other broke loose but did NOT totally fly off the tire with the tread. It 'snaked' around, wiped out the inner fender and wrapped around the suspension causing the wheel to crank all the way to the right.

The rest of the story (Texas Instruments vs. Firestone) will go untold due to the settlement agreement. But, when I got home that evening my mouth fell open...the incident was a GOOD thing!!!

My interview was set for a restaurant NW of Detroit, Machus Red Fox. The report was Jimmy Hoffa had been abucted from the restaurant parking lot at 1:09 PM that afternoon.

If the Firestone tire hadn't failed, I'd have been crossing the parking lot to the restaurant at EXACTLY the wrong time!

BTW, Firestone service techs, engineers and legal staff were AMAZED... The defective tire did NOT lose air during the incident!

I had the same thing happen to my 73. I was going around a gentle curve at 50 MPH. I loud bang & slap,slap in the right rear like you hear at a NASCAR race. Rear of the Corvette started to come around. I let off the gas tried to let the car catch itself. Car just snapped around .I did a 360 with the ass end down in a shallow ditch. Went back on the road headed the same way that I was going. Tire did a number on the RR quarter but no other damage. There was no way to keep the car from going around. I was like it was on ice. Had I been going any faster I believe I would have rolled it also.
KEN

[Bill M.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

OK, I'll tell you why drivers 'lost it' with Firestone 500's. The proving grounds 'simulation' was just that, a simulation, NOT an actual blow-out. Basically, your tires simply deflated but remained structurely intact. Now, to the meat of my story.

I was a sales manager for Texas Instruments driving from Chicago back to Detroit to conduct an interview of a perspective employee. I was running my '76 Ford T-Bird factory equipped with Firestone 500's and pushing 80 mph as I drove through Detroit's NW suburbs.

There was a 'noise' and IMMEDIATELY the steering wheel took on a life of its own spinning through my hands until it hit the rightmost lock. The car spun 360, 2-3 times, flipped up on its side and rolled over into the center median on its roof.

Fortunately, I didn't hit anybody and others (including a cop) stopped to extract me from the inverted car. I had it 'scraped off the road and cancelled my luncheon interview (scheduled for just after 1:00PM so the restaurant would be slightly off-peak in traffic).

The tread on the RF tire had separated. One steel belt stayed on the tire, the other broke loose but did NOT totally fly off the tire with the tread. It 'snaked' around, wiped out the inner fender and wrapped around the suspension causing the wheel to crank all the way to the right.

The rest of the story (Texas Instruments vs. Firestone) will go untold due to the settlement agreement. But, when I got home that evening my mouth fell open...the incident was a GOOD thing!!!

My interview was set for a restaurant NW of Detroit, Machus Red Fox. The report was Jimmy Hoffa had been abucted from the restaurant parking lot at 1:09 PM that afternoon.

If the Firestone tire hadn't failed, I'd have been crossing the parking lot to the restaurant at EXACTLY the wrong time!

BTW, Firestone service techs, engineers and legal staff were AMAZED... The defective tire did NOT lose air during the incident!

Here's a non-proving ground event at freeway speed: I had a tire blow on the back of an F-150 4X4 on I-75. I heard a big bang; figured I had hit something. That must have been the tread separating from the tire. It was such a non-event that I kept driving until I heard the aluminum rim clanking on the pavement. The only thing left were the sidewalls. Truck didn't even wiggle.

Jimmy Hoffa disappeared in July 1975...

[Steven B.]

Re: How long do Tires last?

'Had an interesting event in Dallas on 635 two years ago. I was late getting my wife to the airport so was going about 75 mph, went to the left lane to enter the HOV and left rear hit a hole over a small rise. Loud noise and the left rear went down immediately. I got off the accelerator and on the brake quickly and it stayed in a straight line all the way to 0 MPH. It stopped perfectly. 'Had an instance at Mid Ohio a few decades ago. Good Year went down immediately going into first dogleg at end of straight---went onto the grass. Salvaged a few parts, but not my underwear.