Two originality Questions, Judgeing

[Gary J.]

I have searched the archives but have been unable to locate the answer to these two questions. When my 67 was judged in September ( I did receive a top fight) the judge quickly identified 2 objects as repops, how?

He looked at my top ignition shield quickly and said repop and assumed that all other shielding was also repo. How can you tell you identify the top shield so quickly?

My washer jar was also identified as repop from the passenger side of the fender view not even on the driver side where it is located, how did he do that. They did look at the screen and thta was correct. I see NOS jars on e-bay etc and they look like mine, how can one tell the difference?

These were minor deductions and I am just looking to expand my knowledge and awareness on identification of original parts from reproductions.

Last but not least, does "everyone" lose points for reproduction battery cables, never ever seen any offered for sale anywhere ( I do have the same reprodictionsd that everyone uses on the car) and this appears to be an impossible part to locate.

Thanks,
Gary

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

I have searched the archives but have been unable to locate the answer to these two questions. When my 67 was judged in September ( I did receive a top fight) the judge quickly identified 2 objects as repops, how?

He looked at my top ignition shield quickly and said repop and assumed that all other shielding was also repo. How can you tell you identify the top shield so quickly?

My washer jar was also identified as repop from the passenger side of the fender view not even on the driver side where it is located, how did he do that. They did look at the screen and that was correct. I see NOS jars on e-bay etc and they look like mine, how can one tell the difference?

These were minor deductions and I am just looking to expand my knowledge and awareness on identification of original parts from reproductions.

Last but not least, does "everyone" lose points for reproduction battery cables, never ever seen any offered for sale anywhere ( I do have the same reproductions that everyone uses on the car) and this appears to be an impossible part to locate.

Thanks,
Gary

You should have ask what was not correct with the parts on your car. The judge might have thought that the chrome was too good. The buzz word now is flash chrome not triple chrome. I had a white repo plastic part on my 67 & the judge said it should be yellow & showed me one on a original car. Told him that the yellow comes with age & heat & was not the original color. If he could not give you a reason then you should not get a deduct. You can appeal to the head judge. Judges are not perfect.
KEN

[Mike M.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Hi Gary,
there are several identifying characteristics on each part that are easily identifiable and very difficult to explain in detail verbally. The JG will help, however, your dilemma would be better resolved visually.
I would suggest hooking-up with your local Chapter or attend a Regional Meet to find a known original car to compare the components with yours.
The visual differences will then "Jump Out" at you.
HaND

[Clark K.]

Re: Two Originality Questions, Judging

I am preparing my '65 L76 Coupe for Flight Judging later this year and have read the two recommended manuals from NCRS. My car has the rubber bag on the driver's side since it is a C-60 car. But, I can understand your dilemma. Did you protest the ruling?

I believe that you are correct that only with age will the original plastic overflow tank show as yellowed. I have also noticed that recent Corvette suppliers are advertising a "properly yellowed" plastic tank. I find this incredible but your experience shows what is happening. NCRS Flight Judging is to bring the car to the spot in history where it was prepared for the customer at the dealer, which to me means brand spanking new, not "old yeller". I feel your pain. -Clark

[Gary J.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

I did not orotest the decision on the washer jar ot the iginition shield. My car was scoring well and the minor deductions were not my concern, I am just wishing tio gain the knowledge to better understand how to tell the difference in original and not.

So far, no one has taken on my question regarding the correct battery cables, is there such an item except those few that are over 40 years old and still in working condition?

Thanks to those that have replied.
Gary

[Brian M.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Gary, The top shield may have had too much of a shine to it and had the white plastic dot on top holding the inside insulator in place, this dot & insulator should have a yellowish look to them.
Washer jar I have no comment.
My car has battery cables from Lectic Limited and have recvd no point deduction in 4 flt judgings.

[Mike M.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Hi Gary
Reproduction cables are available through Lectric Limited and retailed by others. Configuration, Colors and Part numbers will pass, however, to the trained eye, the top of the "Spring Ring" does not have the radius on the top outer edge that is present on the originals. Typically, this will result in a minor deduction.
Again, locate a known set to compare and the difference will become obvious.
HaND

[James W.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Gary

What jumped out at me is a flight judge using the word "repop". Just because a part is reproduction is not reason to deduct. Only if the part deviates in some way from the original in fit finish, configuration or some other way that has to be written on the judging sheet. As was pointed out earlier, the standard is how it looked after normasl dealer prep, which means a yellowed part should get originality points, but a small deduct for condition. Protest the next time it comes up.

Jim

[Jeff S.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Gary

An original distributor cover is stainless steel ... interestingly, two different grades are used. While the 'top' section is non-magnetic -- probably a type 304 grade -- the 'lower' wrapped section is a ferromagnetic grade, perhaps 409.

I am not familiar with reproduction distributor covers, but believe it would be very unlikely that similar materials are used today.

[Ara G.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Brian hit it on the head. I just recently OJ'd at the Kissimmee meet and tagged along with Joe Scafidi and Frank as they Judged 7 cars. The ignition shielding top piece was one item that was deducted. I was told that the two plastic dots on the top of the shielding that hold the insulator on should be "vanilla" and not white or clear. It should have a yellowish tint to. The SAME color description was given to the washer jar. One particular car did not have the screen on the pickup, but regardless, the color was "too stark white". Figured I would pass along the info. Regards and congrats on the Flight. ARA

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Gary

What jumped out at me is a flight judge using the word "repop". Just because a part is reproduction is not reason to deduct. Only if the part deviates in some way from the original in fit finish, configuration or some other way that has to be written on the judging sheet. As was pointed out earlier, the standard is how it looked after normasl dealer prep, which means a yellowed part should get originality points, but a small deduct for condition. Protest the next time it comes up.

Jim

THANK YOU Seems that a lot of judges are looking at a original cars with 30 year old parts & think that is what they looked like new as far as color. All parts change with age unless there are detailed color pictures of origional factory installed parts not counter parts which are not always the same.
KEN

[Mike M.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Looks like it may be time to begin planning the next Dallas Judging Retreat.
HaND

[Page C.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

These snow white plastic washer jars will almost alway get a small deduction. I know some think that they were all snow white when new and somehow they changed to an off white due to age, sun, heat, etc. If that is the case, someone must have a good color photo of the cars engine compartment when it was new showing the washer jar, 1966 PB master cylinder caps, and windshield washer pump in a snow white condition.
If you find an old Corvair (it had the same washer jar), the washer is located in the truck at the front of the car away from the engine heat and sun. These washer jars are off white in color.
JMHO
Page Campbell

[Dan H.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Hi Gary
Reproduction cables are available through Lectric Limited and retailed by others. Configuration, Colors and Part numbers will pass, however, to the trained eye, the top of the "Spring Ring" does not have the radius on the top outer edge that is present on the originals. Typically, this will result in a minor deduction.
Again, locate a known set to compare and the difference will become obvious.
HaND

Hi Mike, haven't been able to find an 'original' set of 64 bat cables, any chance someone can post a picture of original cable with correct shape to clamp area?
Dan

[Mike M.]

Re: Two originality Questions, Judgeing

Hi Dan, hope all is well.
Yes, I certainly hope so. I haven't been able to dig a path to the shed to get to my original '67 set.
The snow piles are high enough that I can't throw it any higher. Clear and sunny here, which creates a drop in the thermometer. It's one degree. I don't know if that is above or below zero, at that level, I guess it really doesn't matter.
Yes, the Pacific Northwest is looking better all the time.
HaND