CE block - VIN on pad or not?

[Harmon C.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Terry -

When an engine failed (or made strange noises, etc.) at roll-test, the car went to a Heavy Repair stall, and the Repair Supervisor sent a copy of that car's Broadcast Copy back to the Engine Dress Line for a replacement. Another engine was run down the Dress Line using that Broadcast Copy (including stamping the correct VIN derivative); the engine was pulled off the conveyor at the end of the Dress Line, placed on a pallet, and a Hi-Lo took it down to Heavy Repair.

In the meantime, the failed engine was pulled from the car and sent back to the Dress Line, where all the bolt-on parts the plant added were stripped off and returned to the line, and the "naked" engine was placed in an empty shipping rack and returned to the supplying engine plant for credit. Assembly plants didn't do any internal engine repairs.

After the engine replacement was complete, the car was re-roll-tested and re-inspected, a new P-O-P was created and affixed with the new engine's machine code, and the car proceeded through Final Process and was shipped. This entire process seldom took more than two shifts.

John
Would the defective engine in this case after being returned to the engine plant ever be fixed and the vin ground off and returned to the assembly plant and installed in another Corvette?

[Michael H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Terry -

When an engine failed (or made strange noises, etc.) at roll-test, the car went to a Heavy Repair stall, and the Repair Supervisor sent a copy of that car's Broadcast Copy back to the Engine Dress Line for a replacement. Another engine was run down the Dress Line using that Broadcast Copy (including stamping the correct VIN derivative);

When I was there several years later, a replacement engine would be pulled off the rack but it wasn't sent down the engine dress line. It was sent directly to the repair area.
Since all of the components needed for the replacement engine were removed from the failed engine and reinstalled on the replacement engine, the dress line would have been unneccessary.

Unfortunately, I never watched, or paid any attention to, the "restamp operation" for the replacement engine so I don't know if the proper stamp holder was used. I have to guess it probably was though.

Sending an extra engine down the dress line would have screwed up the sequence for the chassis line too. I have no idea how that would have been handled.

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

John
Would the defective engine in this case after being returned to the engine plant ever be fixed and the vin ground off and returned to the assembly plant and installed in another Corvette?

Lyle,

Nice seeing you in Kissimmee. I know of an original owner '66 427/390 which has a factory grind out VIN number. Al Grenning has evidence of other similar 427/390s which underwent heavy repair during the same time period.

There's a string on the 'HE HE' engine story going over on CF presently. Interesting bit of history.

[Bert L.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Great info John! I can almost visualize the occurrence and the responses it might have engendered at the "roll test" station. I can't help but wonder just how frequent or infrequently this engine still-birth situation might have arisen. Thanks for sharing.

[Mark R.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

John:

Once again, thanks for providing valuable information regarding the assembly process in St. Louis.

We are so fortunate to have your active participation on this TDB.

With sincere appreciation,

Mark

[John H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

When I was there several years later, a replacement engine would be pulled off the rack but it wasn't sent down the engine dress line. It was sent directly to the repair area.
Since all of the components needed for the replacement engine were removed from the failed engine and reinstalled on the replacement engine, the dress line would have been unneccessary.

Michael -

That was at the discretion of the Heavy Repair Supervisor - the swap went a lot faster (and didn't tie up the hoist anywhere near as long) when the replacement engine was already dressed when it got to Repair, rather than tie up the repairman screwing with a lot of small parts while the car waited. Efficiency counts, even in Repair.

Sequence wasn't an issue - they'd just plug the replacement engine inbetween two regular production engines, and yank it off the hook at the end of the dress line; at the Chassis Line delivery point, they'd just let the empty hook go by.

[John H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

John, am I correct in assuming that a naked engine is a long block or could it be a short block? Anything else it might be?

Thanks for contributing your knowledge. It is really appreciated.

Steve

Steve -

The "naked" engine as-shipped from the engine plant was a long block, but just barely; here's what they looked like on the shipping dock at Flint V-8 in 1955, and that state of dress didn't change until the mid-80's.

[John H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

John
Would the defective engine in this case after being returned to the engine plant ever be fixed and the vin ground off and returned to the assembly plant and installed in another Corvette?

Lyle -

Yes, if the block wasn't damaged and the repair was economically feasible; that's why you see all the grind-outs in Al Grenning's photo database.

[John H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Great info John! I can almost visualize the occurrence and the responses it might have engendered at the "roll test" station. I can't help but wonder just how frequent or infrequently this engine still-birth situation might have arisen. Thanks for sharing.

Bert -

Engine changes weren't a regular occurrence - you might get two or three a week for various internal noises, maybe one a month with a major failure/seizure.

[Jim T.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

John H. my 1970 350/300 Corvette was bought from the dealership off the show room floor and I came back the next day to pick it up.
It was driven out of the shop and parked while I talked to the salesman. It was now closing time, my salesman was the last to leave when I got in my new Corvette and started it, no oil pressure was quickly discovered.
I shut it off quickly and checked the oil, it was full and clean. Engine sounded fine. I made a stupid assessment that the oil guage was not funtional and left. Couple minutes later the engine noise came.
Do you have any speculation as to what happened inside my new engine?

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Do you have any speculation as to what happened inside my new engine?

It broke.

Possibly oil pump or drive problems.

[Bob H.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Hi Ara

I see you are in Florida. Was this a red/red convertible? If so, I went to see one here in Orlando and have information for you regarding the frame.

[Edward M.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

Lynn--
NCRS judging standards are established to judge the car as it was when it left the plant. Our standard is not "original based on what the factory promised the customer upon purchase." That standard has been in place since the inception of the organization in 1974. There have been many who for one reason or another want to add shades of gray to that over the years--that has always been deemed too slippery a slope to start down.
Regards,
Mike

I really think we should think about this situation more. The replacement of the original engine under warranty is part of that car's history. The way it is now, it would be worth more for the owner to find a correctly dated block (with or without a re-stamp).

We should give significant credit to a replacement engine that falls within the warranty period, rather than encouraging owners to replace "warranty replacement" engines.

This is a service replacement part, it should get credit as such.

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

We should give significant credit to a replacement engine that falls within the warranty period, rather than encouraging owners to replace "warranty replacement" engines.

This is a service replacement part, it should get credit as such.

This would create a market for junkyard CE engines which would be used to give undue credibility to NOM cars. There is no stamping on a CE engine that ties it to a particular car.

[Edward M.]

Re: CE block - VIN on pad or not?

I really don't think there are a lot of CE engines out there that specifically match the warranty period of the cars we are talking about. But lets assume there are.

Which is better, the CE engine put in to replace a NOM that matches the warranty period or a correctly dated replacement engine (with or without a re-stamp).

I am saying that we should be encouraging the preservation of the history of each car. If it had a warranty engine replacement, fine, lets preserve that knowledge.

Yes, we may get some "fake" CEs, put we are still better off. It is better to preserve one original CE than it is to encourage 100 re-stamps.

A CE engine within the warranty period ought to be worth at least as much as a correctly dated engine with a blank pad.

I don't expect to win this argument. Just like I don't expect to win the argument that NCRS should have an outside audit of the books. Neither one is very popular with the powers that be.