PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

[Bill C.]

Hi,
Hoping to get some feedback from anyone using PPG DDL acrylic lacquer. Lately I am finding that the paint appears "soft" for an extended period of time after application and is also very sentitive to "imprinting". Can anyone comment on similar experiences? I see it in solids and metallics, I do use the PPG clear 468 on top, all film builds are kept to a minimum and am following tech sheet for recoat times.
Thanks in advance!

[Rich P.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

Bill,

thats how lacquer is nowadays. It will imprint and leave tape marks for months afterwards. It takes 90-120 days for it to begin to stop doing this. I just finished 2 lacquer jobs in the past year and thats excactly what they did.

Rich

[Dick W.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

Rich, I agree with you. I found out the hard way you cannot get on it with a buffer a week after it is painted. Rolls up in balls

[Bill C.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

Ok, so its not me.

Thanks for your comments!

Started noticing this a few years back, when Dupont or RM was no longer to be had,got myself in trouble also the first time I used the new final finish foam pad, used to be fantastic, the sharp "cut" edge of he foam cut right into the first upcurved panel it found, even at slow speed. Learned to wait longer to sand and buff. And for me anyway, nothing but #1 or #2 wool pads. Cannot really get it to a brilliant shine for weeks, but fresh it sure looks perfect for factory finish. I have also let it cure longer between coats, talking weeks between sanding color coats but when I get to needing to do the BB 67 hood, (first one with this PPG ) and I try and stay in the 24 hr recoat window without sanding (its marina blue with black stripe) What a disaster! If I was not burying this in clear I would be in a real heap and have a lot of explaining to do to the owner who hopes this car is done soon!

I also saw the article in the back of one of the last restorers about the poor straight axle owner who had a fender cover imprint his fender on a hot day. Bet it was new PPG!
I have seen that happen from the new weatherstripping on a 66 hard top to the deck lid, left an imprint in 6 month old paint I cannot sand and buff out, looks like the top was on a car for 40K miles! After reading the article I thought as that owner did it may be something in the rubber, some new plastisizer or release agent, now maybe I think differently.

Same problem Twice with a hardtop placed on the storage racks you see available with rollers and it does a pretty good job of keeping the weight of the top "balanced" so that when it is resting against the pads of the stand, its very lightly leaning on the resting pads, imprinted twice, even after extra care was used after the repaint to add additional padding.

What are we to do ??

[Wayne W.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

I havent used the newest PPG lacquer, but Ditzler as we new it then (PPG) was always the softest most flexible brand available. That is why I liked it on Corvettes, for its flexibility. Some like SW,Acme,MS and others were very brittle. It also made a difference with what thinners that were used as to how soft it was and how long it stayed flexible.

Six months after I painted my white 67BB it sustained some damage to the front end paint. I literally peeled the complete BB hood stripe off the car. You could hold the stripe in you hands and stretch it more than two times its length before it would break in two. No other lacquer of the time would do that. Right or wrong I figured that was good for a corvette body. Its been on there for almost 30 years now.

[Bill C.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

Wayne,
Thanks, guess we will need to deal with it. Surely much thought needs to go into the use of a car cover, could do lots of harm.

The flexibility being built it is a good idea, but it comes with its drawbacks I guess. How would one handle the same scenario I just experienced with marina blue and black stinger? Maybe I just need to forget burying the stripe under clear ( I realize that is not resto correct, but this car is not going that route) so I can clear the metallic in the 24 hr window and then do the stripe monthes later?
Bill

[Gary C.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

per conversation with Tom Ames and John Ballard this weekend - "PPG due to EPA restrictions has remove the lead content and changed solvents in their lacquer. Making it not durable, soft and for goodness sakes don't get bird poop on it." Gary....

[Wayne W.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

I dont know what you should do. With the old lacquers, I dont remember any mention of a recoat time. About the only trouble you would get into then would be putting a recoat on with the thinner too hot. The paint would bust up under it. I dont know if the new formulation is sensitive to that like the old acrylic enamel was or not. You could paint the color and clear and wait for some time to put the stripe on. Do the stripe in solid urethane black. It should not attack the lacquer. Another out would be to wait until it can be safely taped and then clear the whole car. But, if there is a critical period, It could bust up. As I said, old lacquers never had a critical period like acrylic enamals, but they were very sensitive to hot thinners.

[Bill C.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

Yep, makes sense. I forgot to mention I also use the DTL105 slow thinner also as I use a turbine HVLP system, needs the slower kick due to the additional high volume heated air at the gun. Maybe that hurts long term also? I have not seen the medium thinner leave it harder.

At least in my case anyway the colors I have used have been a good match to original, so I will continue using it, besides, I bought a couple gallons of each color I planned on needing for my own projects a couple of years ago anticipating it ( or the right tints/metallics) going away, so have to learn to deal with it, hopefully the correct thinners will continue to be available from PPG for the foreseable future, I am already being forced to purchase "friendly" thinners with lacquer primer, I do not have to use it and don't but whats next? I fear one day going in to buy my thinner and being handed acetone and being told, sorry, that all thats available

[Thomas N.]

Re: PPG DDL Lacquer "SOFT" ?

The DDL Acrylic Lacquer nowadays does need a lot of time to harden/flash off all of the solvents. The 120 day period seems quite in line with what I have seen, especially if you use the 105 hi-gloss thinner (slow evaporation rate). That is why you really need to make sure your bodywork underneath is properly cured and sealed, or during this duration, you will also get bodywork showing up on your paint. It will look good after painting/buffing, but with time, you will get bodywork showing through. That is why it is imperative that you do not wax/seal the surface of the fresh paint during this 120 days. Most people say ok after 30 days, but I like to wait longer.

I painted a 73 Vette with t-tops and put the t-tops in their bags and got print through onto the t-tops. I thought they were ruined, and would need to be refinished. I put the t-tops back on the car, and the sun reflowed the lacquer and removed the print through from the bags. I dodged one on that.

I've also seen cars with beautiful lacquer paint jobs, and have used a bra, and the moisture trapped is driven into the lacquer and clouds the paint. Sometimes the water vapor will evaporate, and with a little surface buffing you are ok, but sometimes it will not come to the surface and evaporate.