Correct Engine ID Number

**Donald T.** · January 22, 2009, 04:55 PM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

Originally posted by Walter Rowe (49838)

I am trying to restore my 66 with an effort to return to original condition for future judging. The block was replaced in 1973 and I feel confident I will be able to find a block with a correct casting number and correct date code. What is done in cases like this with regard to the engine ID Number. I understand it containes the last digits of the VIN number which would be impossible to reproduce.

Walter,

You can have the car judged with the incorrect motor that is currently in it, but be prepared to take a big deduction in points. Nothing wrong with installing a correctly dated block, but you will still take a hit for the incorrect engine pad stampings. It is very controversial, but you can have the block restamped. Reproducing the VIN isn't as much of a problem as the broach marks on the pad. It is also likely that the restamp will be detected in judging.

If it were mine, I would just drive it and enjoy it with the engine that is in it now. If you want a high scoring Top Flight car, then I would trade it in for one that still has the original block with an untouched pad, then you can avoid all the problems. Just my opinion.

**Bill W.** · January 22, 2009, 05:16 PM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

Walter,
There's nothing wrong with building a reproduction engine, it's done all the time. If you decide to go this route be prepared to spend quite a bit of money depending on what is a correct motor for your car. Please don't be tempted to add an optional engine, if your car was build with an 250 HP automatic put that back in, not a big block with three carbs. A low horse motor will also cost much less to build. When you present the car for judging you will be asked to fill out a "green sheet" explaining any mods or changes you have made, I would note that the engine is a reproduction. Doing so will remove any doubt that someone may have about your intentions. Good luck with your project! Bill

**Walter R.** · January 22, 2009, 08:12 PM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

In considering the replacement of the engine is havingthe engine re-stamped a no no. What are the broach marks. My engine currently is a 427/425 with a casting date of 1973. It was purchased from the GM dealer in 73. The original block was a 427/425 which had problems when previous owner ran without oil.

**Bill W.** · January 23, 2009, 09:47 AM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

Walter,
Restamping a motor is no differant than using reproduction seat covers, as long as you don't change the color or material from what the factory installed. Same with the motor. Do you have any documentation (window sticker or owners manual) that your car was built with the 427, 425 horse motor?
Broach marks are faint markings on the block surface that are part of the factory manufacturing process. Do a search on broach marks and restamping motors. Much has been written here on the subject.
Bare in mind that a good reproduction 427/425 HP motor will be VERY expensive to come by. Has your car been entered in NCRS judging? If not I think the first thing to do is have it judged at a chapter or regional meet near you, while there talk over your plans with the 1966 team leader and ask for any advise he has. Good luck with your car. Bill

**Kenneth H.** · January 23, 2009, 10:04 AM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

Walter,

Below is a picture of the engine pad from my '70 LT1. The faint lines running top to bottom are the typical broach marks that you should find on an untouched pad.

Ken

Attached Files

Engine pad.jpg (47.2 KB, 69 views)

**Gene M.** · January 23, 2009, 10:23 AM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

Originally posted by Bill Wilhelm (1600)

Walter,
"When you present the car for judging you will be asked to fill out a "green sheet" explaining any mods or changes you have made, I would note that the engine is a reproduction." Bill

Bill,
I have not seen the green sheet used in this manor in over 15 years. Nobody ever claims to have a fake/or restamped engine in their car in this day. I can remember the days when a stamper lost the entire points. Today NCRS leaders are encouraging members to restamp the engine when they incur point deductions in this area. This has happened to members in my chapter. I heard it said to them first hand. Believe me this has turned them off. It just makes me shake my head.....

**Jack H.** · January 23, 2009, 01:28 PM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

As Chapter Judging Chairman, I see this with relative regularity! The 'declaration/exceptions' field of the 'green sheet' (NCRS Judging Summary Sheet) has owner comments on it.

Comments like 'NOM' meaning non-original motor or, 'PS added' are common. The owner is using NCRS club rules to safeguard himself against potential future owner claims of 'fraud'.

Per our rules, the green sheet is NOT available to judges and is picked up by the Team Leader for submission to Tabulations when the VIN/Trim Tag is verified BEFORE Flight Judging begins. Judges work the scoring process based on their knowledge/experience and scoring rules only; without knowing what declaration(s) the owner has made and/or how a given car may have fared in prior Flight Judging events.

Bottom line, the owner has made a full disclosure of his restoration deviation(s) and isn't trying to fool anybody even though the judges couldn't see/use that information to influence their judgment calls regarding the APPEARANCE of the finished vehicle.

**Mike M.** · January 26, 2009, 01:33 PM

Re: Correct Engine ID Number

Gene,
I hope that I mis-interpreted your comment regarding the re-stamps.
I have never witnessed or heard of any experienced Judge within my realm of observation during the Judging Process offering unsolicited encouragement or even recommended that a pad be "Re-Stamped".
However, we know there are pads that have "Met the Judging Standard" and have received full credit as a "Restoration Engine".
HaND