paint judging

[Steve D.]

I was told that i could have a sray out card of paint i am going to use analized for correctness by some one in the club before spraying the car so that i will know that it is the correct metal flake size and shade . Who do i send it to ?

[Bill W.]

Re: paint judging

what color,what year, what brand of paint, and what is your plan for the car ?

[Steve D.]

Re: paint judging

61/ hondurus maroon and emine white / acrylic laquer from the restoration shop /goal is upper top flight /this is a one owner car and body has been on rotisery for 8 months finaly ready for color and do not want to do it twice/also did thay use a sealer first and if so what color

[Jack H.]

Re: paint judging

Hondurus maroon is a particularly hard to duplicate color; it's right up there with the '63-only Sebring silver paint.... It's one that FREQUENTLY winds up taking originality deductions when the restorer shoots today's lacquer paint using the by-the-book blend code(s).

If you want to do it right/do it once, then I'd start SERIOUS dialog(s) with the current NTL + other owners who've done a similar restoration recently and have been through the judging process!

[Ned T.]

Re: paint judging

A different question on Paint Judging. Im new so bare with me here. Is it true you can "overrestore" the finish even if its a acrylic lacquer paint. In other wirds, is there a deduction if the paint is correct color but too "nice".

[Steven S.]

Re: paint judging

A different question on Paint Judging. Im new so bare with me here. Is it true you can "overrestore" the finish even if its a acrylic lacquer paint. In other wirds, is there a deduction if the paint is correct color but too "nice".

Yes, you can over restore a lacquer finish. If the primer is block sanded followed by blocking all finish coats, you will have a finish far better than GM ever came out with.

Steve

[Ned T.]

Re: paint judging

Yes, you can over restore a lacquer finish. If the primer is block sanded followed by blocking all finish coats, you will have a finish far better than GM ever came out with.

Steve

Cant get away with maybe "GM was having a really good day in the paint department" that day?? Or didnt they have any of those?

[Jack H.]

Re: paint judging

Adding on to what Steve said, there's a standard deduction method to judging paint (see your copy of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual) with the objective being to make the car resemble the factory original workmanship.

This goes against the grain of most painters used to doing concours versus factory concours paint jobs on classic cars. They tend to 'over restore' most jobs making them 'perfect' with respect to surface texture (flat, smooth with NO orange peel) and hand sanding/polishing the sucessive layers of paint to churn out a finish that's SO deep you can comb your hair in the reflection you see.

That was NOT the way GM originally built/shipped these cars.... They were 'kit' cars built quick & dirty in the pursuit of low labor content and fast assy to the point of shipment.

If the shop you've selected to do your paint/body work has NOT taken one of their cars through a factory concours judging, BEWARE! It's almost impossible for them to understand the minor facets of factory originality that circuits like NCRS & NCCB expect to see and it's DARN hard for those who have been this route to swallow their pride in workmanship sufficiently to put out paint/body work that meets these standards!

[Jack H.]

Re: paint judging

The judging standard is 'typical' factory production. So, attempting to argue that this/that car might have been hand walked through the factory and received significantly more/different attention to detail works against you!

Yes, there may have been a few 'perfect' cars, but then you're talking about something that's outside the window of 'typical' factory production and you lose the argument...

Bottom line, be prepared to 'suck up' and make the car look like typical factory repleat with all that entails OR make it BETTER than factory original and swallow a few judging points in deduction as a consequence.

Remember, there's NOTHING in the over-restoration penalty box that'll prevent you from getting a Top Flight or Mark of Excellence award if you decide to over-restore the paint for the sake of your own pride in workmanship!

[Mark R.]

Re: paint judging

If the shop you've selected to do your paint/body work has NOT taken one of their cars through a factory concours judging, BEWARE! It's almost impossible for them to understand the minor facets of factory originality that circuits like NCRS & NCCB expect to see and it's DARN hard for those who have been this route to swallow their pride in workmanship sufficiently to put out paint/body work that meets these standards!

Jack:

You are right on the money!

If a member is having his car painted by someone unfamiliar with NCRS paint judging, it is the responsibility of the owner/NCRS member to do his homework and communicate clearly with the restorer/painter the color and finish required to achieve maximum points.

Mark

[Ridge K.]

Re: paint judging

The judging standard is 'typical' factory production. So, attempting to argue that this/that car might have been hand walked through the factory and received significantly more/different attention to detail works against you!

Yes, there may have been a few 'perfect' cars, but then you're talking about something that's outside the window of 'typical' factory production and you lose the argument...

Bottom line, be prepared to 'suck up' and make the car look like typical factory repleat with all that entails OR make it BETTER than factory original and swallow a few judging points in deduction as a consequence.

Remember, there's NOTHING in the over-restoration penalty box that'll prevent you from getting a Top Flight or Mark of Excellence award if you decide to over-restore the paint for the sake of your own pride in workmanship!

Jack, a quick thanks for providing an excellent explanation. I have had trouble wrapping my mind around a judging standard, that seems to insist on seeing flaws in paint, when I had seen a couple "perfect" paints jobs myself, on brand new, showroom, 1969 Corvettes. That word you put into your post "typical", helped me to understand the logic behind the judging standard.
Thanks. Ridge

[Steve D.]

Re: paint judging

OK can we get back to my original question is there somone i can have verify my color? also I am a professonal auto body restorer and Ihave purchasted the NCRS paint/fiberglass dvd and know now what the judges will be looking for .I also know ill take a hit on having way to nice of body work and door gaps. So I lose 10 maybe 20 percent on over restoration?.But i am going to swallow real hard and leave the orenge peel. Then after judging i will pull my trim/ color sand and polish /and then I can be happy to! But I not going to lose 85 points because its not the correct shade of honduras maroon

[Ned T.]

Re: paint judging

Jack, Also thanks for the explaination. It would be tough to do a paint job below ones ability. I like the idea of just taking the deduction.

[Ray C.]

Re: paint judging

A different question on Paint Judging. Im new so bare with me here. Is it true you can "overrestore" the finish even if its a acrylic lacquer paint. In other wirds, is there a deduction if the paint is correct color but too "nice".

I restored a 1963 Ermine White SWC. I painted it in my barn/garage using PPG Duracryl acrylic lacquer. I wet sanded from the belt line up. Buffed the upper half and minor buffing to the bottom half. Received a deduct for over restoration. I have seen base coat clear coat with flattened jambs receive no deduct. I believe that the deduct or lack of will depend on who, when, where and what level you are having your car judged.

Ray

[Steven G.]

Re: paint judging

I suggest go to ncrs store, buy the dvd on fiberglass and paint. I did and have learned so much and it will save time and money. Steve