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Early Vettes and T-Birds

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  • Stuart F.
    Expired
    • August 31, 1996
    • 4676

    Early Vettes and T-Birds

    First let me say, I have no intention to start a thread that is in anyway about T-Birds, other than to compare the early years of the two makes and voice some of my preliminary conclusions. I recently spent some time at a couple of cruise-ins parked next to T-Birds whose owners had restored them and were quite familiar with their history (one 56 and one 57).

    It goes without saying that the real early C-1's were a little rough, and they were kind of put together out of the GM parts bins. I believe it safe to say that the use of fiberglass material for the bodies was originally in the vein of "prototyping", or the limited production of a concept vehicle. Lucky for us the Corvette blossomed through the years into what it is today.

    It seems that the early appeal of the Vette caught Ford by surprise and they rushed the T-Bird into production in 1955. They too went heavily to their parts bin. The body production was jobbed out which, I understand, was the first time they went outside for a body. Ironically, the quality of their steel body was no better than the early Vettes. In fact, when they are judged today, if an owner has spent time trying to perfect the body (straighten the panels and block sand, etc.), they too would get heavy points deducts as rough "bondo" looking body panels is the original norm.

    The fiasco they had about the spare tire is very interesting as well; Apparently, their Engineers didn't give it much thought until the car went into production. When they put a full size spare into that low trunk, they practically had no room for any luggage, and owners complained. So that led to the famous "Continental Kit". Here too, they first mounted it in a fixed position, and that also brought complaints as it was hard to get around to access the trunk. Finally, in 1957, they grafted on the back of a Galaxy which extended the back some 11" (?) and allowed for a Corvette type tire tub behind the axle.

    Their convertible top is a nightmare to behold, and then there was the famous rear quarter Port Hole windows in the hardtop to address the bad blind spot.

    I think the item that interested me the most was the reports of extreme engine heat in the T-Bird passenger compartment, so much in fact that it would make any BB owner Happy that Chevrolet at least made attempts to overcome the problem for their Vettes. Ford, apparently never did.
    The owner I was parked next to last night has a real nice 57 T-Bird that he fully restored. Being an aerospace worker at the Cape, he managed to come by a supply of discarded heat shield tiles from the space shuttles and has glued them into his transmission tunnel to deal with the heat, said it worked very well.

    Seems Ford gave up trying to compete with the Vette after 1957 and went to a four passenger version in 58 - and why not; the 57 sold only some 15, 000 while their 58 sold about 46, 000.

    One last observation, this 57 T-Bird had the 312 cu.in engine with solid lifters. The owner warned me before he started it up that the Ford engine doesn't have the nice tappet "Power Purr" of the Corvette solid lifter engines, rather it just has a rattling sound like it's in bad need of a valve adjustment.

    Stu Fox
    Last edited by Stuart F.; December 21, 2008, 10:10 AM. Reason: spelling
  • Roy B.
    Expired
    • January 31, 1975
    • 7044

    #2
    Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

    I always loved the 57 bird but back in the 60's when I went looking to buy a used sports car they were 2 to $300.00 more then a used Corvette so I bought a Corvette and that's what started me in Corvettes . By the way I have never owned a T-bird but now looking to get one a 57.
    Funny thing tho when I'm next to a 55 t-bird at a show the owners tells me how rare his bird is compared to my 55 as tho GM made a million 55 Corvettes and Ford made thousand's of t-birds.

    Comment

    • John H.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • November 30, 1997
      • 16513

      #3
      Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

      Originally posted by Stuart Fox (28060)
      The body production was jobbed out which, I understand, was the first time they went outside for a body. Ironically, the quality of their steel body was no better than the early Vettes. In fact, when they are judged today, if an owner has spent time trying to perfect the body (straighten the panels and block sand, etc.), they too would get heavy points deducts as rough "bondo" looking body panels is the original norm.
      That's correct - 55-6-7 T-Bird bodies were built outside, by the Budd Company in Detroit. In those days, Budd was a major stamping supplier to the industry, and had the largest stamping plant in the world; they were the secondary supplier of Chevrolet "B"-body (Impala/Caprice) stampings when we were making 6,000 of them per day from '65-'70 and no GM stamping plant could meet the demand. Two complete sets of dies were made for all "B"-body stampings - one set was in Fisher Body and Chevrolet stamping plants, and the other set was at Budd. Some plants got Chevy hoods and fenders, and the others got Budd hoods and fenders.

      It was NOT fun building "B"-bodies and trying to fit Budd fenders to a Chevy hood; Chevrolet Bristol Road Stamping had a 2-week breakdown on the Chevy left fender in '70, and we had to build cars with Budd fenders on that side for two weeks - we had to re-shim the left side fender welders to re-shape the crown of the Budd fenders to match the crown of the Chevy hood (the Budd fenders were to print, and the Chevy hoods weren't).

      Comment

      • Jim D.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • June 30, 1985
        • 2883

        #4
        Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

        Having restored several "early birds" and being a member of the CTCI (T-Bird owners version of the NCRS) for many years, I have to comment on this topic.
        Ford never had to play catch-up to compete with the Corvette. While Chev. had problems selling theirs, Ford couldn't make enough T-Bird's. In 55, the T-Bird outsold the Corvette 16,155 to 700, in 1956 it was 15,631 to 3,467 and in 1957 it was 21,380 to 6,339. Basically a 5 to 1 ratio. In fact, Ford continued to make the 57 Bird well into the 58 model year just to catch up on existing orders. The last one was made 12-13-57. Ford decided, correctly from a selling standpoint, to go with a 4 seater in 1958. The decision had nothing to do with the Corvette.
        The heat problem is because the mufflers are directly below your feet. Aftermarket heat shields, that solve the problem completely, have been available for 50 years.
        Yes, they all had solid lifters and if adjusted correctly, sound as good as the Duntov cam in my 1960. The supercharged 312 far exceeded the 1 HP per 1 C.I. of the touted 283HP 283.

        Jim

        Comment

        • Mike M.
          NCRS Past President
          • May 31, 1974
          • 8373

          #5
          Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

          i recall looking at a 55-7 t-bird in the early 70's. wasn't for me but rather a friend was interested . i'd guess 60% of the firewall/floorpan was either absent or paper thin. it was a western pa bird and i've never seen a vette whose frame rusted as bad as the birds thin sheet metal. a fellow here in town, now a retired state trooper, had a 55 bird with a 390 ford transplanted motor. it wouldn't run with my 394ci Olds powered 49 chevy coupe back in the early 60's. after the drag race, on the streets, he became a trooper and was constantly on my a$$. he's now a good friend who saw the light and bought a 66 vette some 30 years ago. as the old saying went back then, "i'd rather see my sister in a ***** house than a brother in a Ford". i will rot in hell.mikie

          Comment

          • Terry R.
            Expired
            • February 28, 2005
            • 359

            #6
            Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

            I have a '62 vette and a '57 Bird, my wife loves the PS and PB of the Bird but I had to do a lot of suspension upgrades,HD shocks,larger sway bars,and stiffer springs just so I felt like she would be safe.The soft top is a joke. Fit and finish is comparable to the early Corvette but performance is way better with the Vette. On the flip side at a Cruise nite they walk past my '62 Corvette to talk to the Blonde in the Dusk Rose T-Bird. Go figure.

            Comment

            • Jim D.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • June 30, 1985
              • 2883

              #7
              Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

              Originally posted by Mike McCagh (14)
              "i'd rather see my sister in a ***** house than a brother in a Ford". i will rot in hell.mikie
              Fortunately I'm not that narrow minded or I would have to sell my Cobra which happens to be just as beautiful, and much faster than, the many Corvettes I've owned.

              On a serious note, the "early birds" had rust issues, just like all the other metal cars including GM products. We won't talk about birdcage rust that turns a C2 into a "parts car" or frame rust. They do tend to be a "chick" car because if you're over 6' tall, you have to have the top down so you can look out over the windshield. But man oh man, reproduction/restoration parts are 1/2 what Corvette parts cost.

              Jim
              Last edited by Jim D.; December 21, 2008, 12:29 PM.

              Comment

              • Bill M.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • March 31, 1977
                • 1386

                #8
                Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                Originally posted by Stuart Fox (28060)
                I think the item that interested me the most was the reports of extreme engine heat in the T-Bird passenger compartment, so much in fact that it would make any BB owner Happy that Chevrolet at least made attempts to overcome the problem for their Vettes. Ford, apparently never did.

                Stu Fox
                Ford added foot box ventilators to the '56 and '57 models. They open like a C1 cowl ventilator. There is one in each front fender.

                Comment

                • Mike E.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • February 28, 1975
                  • 5136

                  #9
                  Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                  Jim--
                  My understanding is that sheet metal, specifically quarters, for the T-birds are extremely expensive--much more so than replacement Corvette fiberglass, not 1/2 as expensive.

                  Comment

                  • Joe C.
                    Expired
                    • August 31, 1999
                    • 4598

                    #10
                    Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                    This is a great thread! Thanks Stu.
                    '57 T-Bird is my favorite. But one minor correction for those who may not remember..............the early T-Birds were actually "baby Fairlanes", and were heavily based on them (or, was the Fairlane based on the T-Bird?). IIRC, the dash and clusters were also very similar......same similarity as the early Vette to the BelAir.
                    When the Galaxie model was introduced in 1958 (same year as the Impala, BTW), the T-Bird grew 2 more seats, went through a major design change, and morphed into a boulevard cruiser rather than a roadster.
                    My father had a '57 Fairlane 500, 2 door hardtop, with valve covers that read "THUNDERBIRD", and dual "Hollywood" mufflers. Wasn't a 312, fer sure. Probly a 292 or 272 y-block.
                    Those Fords had real bad rust problems! Area just behind headlights, entire lower cowl/firewall, and trailing edge/lower corner of fenders were only good for maybe 3-4 years before the "cancer" broke through........
                    Last edited by Joe C.; December 21, 2008, 02:50 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Jim D.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • June 30, 1985
                      • 2883

                      #11
                      Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                      Mike,

                      Quarter panels for a 57 Bird run $235 a side. I didn't know they were available for a 57 Corvette but for C-2's they are about $100 more. I was actually referring to things like wiring , trim, emblems, interior and things like that. For example, exact reproduction carpet with padding for a 57 Bird -$94, 57 Corvette - $475. Complete interior kit including dash pad and every piece of soft trim for a 56 Bird - $645, for a 56 Corvette - $2249.

                      Jim

                      Comment

                      • Larry S.
                        Expired
                        • March 11, 2007
                        • 457

                        #12
                        Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                        I have a '56 T-Bird and have owned two '57's. Trying to compare them with Corvettes is apples and oranges. The T-Bird was never advertised as a sports car--it was a 'personal car'. One has only to look at the options to see that difference: power seats, roll-up windows, wire wheel covers, tonneau covers, etc. About the only thing 55-57 T-Birds had in common with 53-57 Vettes is that they were both two seaters.

                        The early Birds are boulevard cruisers with soft suspension. They are not very powerful and their cornerning and braking are almost scary. Only in 1957 did Ford try to make something out of the T-Bird that it was not by offering a dual four setup and then a Paxton supercharger to get 270 and 300 hp respectively.

                        They are pretty to look at, but they do rust and leak. Ford never solved the water leaks in the hard and soft tops despite constant changes in weatherstrips.

                        My '56 has had a body-off restoration, and it's a rare color (Thunderbird Gray) with rare options (fog lamps, 3-speed, wire wheel covers, tonneau cover, both tops), but it's worth only about $35K--what it was worth 20 years ago.

                        Comment

                        • Stuart F.
                          Expired
                          • August 31, 1996
                          • 4676

                          #13
                          Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                          Further to my original post and to address some of Jim's comments; when I referred to Ford playing catchup, I was speaking about the fact that The Corvette was out for two years before the T-Bird appeared. It is probably safe to say there would not have been a T-Bird had there not been a Corvette. I realize Ford won the sales battle, but there is no accounting of the impact the Corvette had on the sales of Chevy sedans with Corvette engines (or six's for that matter). Ford was well aware of the "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" effect from racing performance. Just look at their successes on the oval tracks in the mid-50's for proof of that.

                          Ford then turned the tables on Chevrolet in the same manner with the Mustang, causing Chevy to play catchup with the Camaro. Then too, when the Corvette was having great success in sportscar racing, Ford had to play catchup by going to England for a chassis to put their engines in to compete - the Cobra and the rest is History (I never considered a Cobra a Ford anyway, rather an A.C. Cobra powered by Ford).

                          When Chevrolet had their Rochester division develope the Fuel Injection, Ford went to an aftermarket supplier for a supercharger. Then too, to make them perform on the dragstrip, they had to crank up the boost beyond what was practical for street use. (I used to race against a 57 Flip Top almost every time I made it to stock eliminator with my 298 CI 57 Bel Air post. He ran A/S and I was in B/S. I put on my Caddy quads and he cranked up his boost, and we split the money about 50/50).

                          Stu Fox

                          Comment

                          • Edward S.
                            Expired
                            • November 30, 1986
                            • 514

                            #14
                            Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                            It's funny Stu I always thought it was the other way round - with the poor sales record that vette had those first 3 years I thought had the T-Bird not come out that the vette would not have stayed in business.

                            Comment

                            • Stuart F.
                              Expired
                              • August 31, 1996
                              • 4676

                              #15
                              Re: Early Vettes and T-Birds

                              Ed;

                              Both theories are probably true, but isn't it fun to re-live the old Chevy vs. Ford vs. MOPAR battles again? Sure beats all the doom and gloom of today's Automotive news. It's also better than all the comparos with the foreign marks.

                              Stu Fox

                              Comment

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