What GM BANKRUPTCY REALY IS

[Bill M.]

Re: What GM BANKRUPTCY REALY IS

For the UAW president to say that their wages were in line with the import car makers is beyond ludicrous. Gary

FYI: These pay levels were published by Ford this month:

Transplant wage + benefit: $49/hour
UAW w+b w/o VEBA: $71/hour
UAW w+b w VEBA (2010) and 20% 2nd tier workforce: $53/hour

[Harmon C.]

Re: What GM BANKRUPTCY REALY IS

I can tell you that the UAW today is nothing like it was in the past. At Chrysler the dead beats were fired new work was brought into the plant by the union making lots of changes to reduce the cost of labor. When I retired the union was doing all they could at my location to save the jobs for the 550 workers left out of 3500. I still say the increased cost of health care for the retirees that is a larger group than the wokers puts the old companys in trouble. The smaller workforce needed to do the same amount of finished goods and retirees living longer and all kinds of high priced ways to make a person live another year or more costs big bucks. The VIBE program will help but it will take a few years. If you was ever tied to the chain on a assembly line you might think UAW wages are fair today.

[Mark K.]

Re: What GM BANKRUPTCY REALY IS

GM will not have to pay any suppliers in fact if thy received payment within 60 days previous to filing they will have to give the money back. KEN BARRY

This part is not true. Creditors can make a 503(b)(9) claim for goods received by the debtor in the 20 days prior to the the filing date, but that just elevates the creditor in a potential liquidation scenario.

While your particular firm may be impacted by bankruptcies flowing through the industry and there are certainly suppliers on the cusp, the courts are likely to approve "critical vender motions" that preserve the supply system.

The issue for GM not wanting to file is less on the supply side than the marketing side. Who wants to purchase a long term product from a company under Chapter 11 reorganization (given that many companys slip from to a Chapter 11 workout situation and the subsequent Chapter 7). A service company line an airline can reorganize easier because the "product" that the "customer" will purchase is based on what is available today and today only. An automobile purchase involves a number of other contracts (stated or implied) that mean the company needs to be there for years to fulfill - which may not be possible (from the customers perspective) if during the reorganization those contracts can be abrogated.

Update - just for added information, a supplier could be require to give back payment from the debtor (the company filing for bankruptcy) but only if the payment can be determined to have been a "preferential transfer". Normal business transactions would not be considered preference. And the period is not 60 days - it's 90 days before the date of the petition.

[Stuart F.]

Re: What GM BANKRUPTCY REALY IS

Lyle;

As a GM retiree losing supplemental health care benefits this coming January 1st., let me tell you I am thrilled to give it up for all those hard working folk (sic) and I hope they take my pension too. I want to do my part so bad, I'll even try to speed up my demise - how about setting me adrift on an iceberg? I have enough fat on me to keep me for a few days, then I'll look for the nearest polar bear to eat me! It's all our fault, all those productive years, the great 50's and 60's, until the spoiled post war babies took over. Then everything went to hell. Gimmy! Gimmy! It's my mine! It's my right!

Stu Fox

[Henry S.]

Re: What GM BANKRUPTCY REALY IS

Lyle;

As a GM retiree losing supplemental health care benefits this coming January 1st., let me tell you I am thrilled to give it up for all those hard working folk (sic) and I hope they take my pension too. I want to do my part so bad, I'll even try to speed up my demise - how about setting me adrift on an iceberg? I have enough fat on me to keep me for a few days, then I'll look for the nearest polar bear to eat me! It's all our fault, all those productive years, the great 50's and 60's, until the spoiled post war babies took over. Then everything went to hell. Gimmy! Gimmy! It's my mine! It's my right!

Stu Fox

Stu,
I feel for you. Having spent 29 1/2 years at the Firestone plant in Decatur as a URW and USWA worker before they closed the doors I have a good feel of what the AIW is feeling now. The retirees are the most vulnerable and easiest pickings. It's pathetic how even our Congressmen have fell in lockstep with management and the "talkingheads" something has to be done with the "legacy" costs. Forget the fact you may have stood on concrete for 30 plus years day in and day out building what you were instructed to build only to be told (now that you are too old or crippled to compete with the younger generation for a job paying $7-10 hour) sorry we have to take your health care benefits or retirement you worked all those years for. It is doubtful few if any of the congressmen or CEOs could last a week in some of the foundries or banburies or even have any idea what they are.

If they want to cut the "legacy" costs, fine do it to every single American from the President all the way down to the french fry getter. It's not the automakers fault the economy is in the shape it is today and they shouldn't have to take the majority of the blame.

It is sad to think our generation may be the first to leave our children or grandchildren worst off than we were.

Shooter

[Kenneth B.]

Re: What GM BANKRUPTCY RELAY IS

Yea, well we all know the chances of that happening. It will happen about the same time our legislators join the Social Security System, and give up their separate pension plan.

There are NCRS members who are tier 1 suppliers to the auto companies, and one whose transportation company has contracts with tier 1 suppliers. Then there are NCRS members who are former auto company employees whose pensions are at risk depending on the resolution of this issue. It is a very personal issue for many people we know.

TERRY
My point was that it seems that everyone thinks that if the big 3 go chapter 11 , break the UAW ,pay 10.00 per hour & cut the people on pension off everything will be OK. It will still not stop a 1000 other companies to not get paid & have to go out of business. Anyone close to the auto business saw a few years ago all the tier 1 companies that reorginized or folded. Is anyone asking the financial employees to work for. 10.00 a hour. The last I head the only thing that got cut was the bonuses from 1,100,000 to 560,000.in some of the companies.
KEN