64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork - NCRS Discussion Boards

64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Joe L.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 31, 1988
    • 43191

    64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

    Well, with some great help from board members Keith Holowecky and Tom Hewitt, I think I figured out the difference between the 64-E66 and L66-81 clutch forks. As you may be aware, the L66-81 fork, GM #3887177, replaced the 64-E66 fork, GM #3844493, for SERVICE in February, 1967 , likely when the SERVICE inventory of the 3844493 was depleted. For many years I've wondered how these pieces actually differed. Now I think I know.

    From my careful inspection of a known GM #3844493 loaned to me by Keith and from photos of another known 3844493 sent to me by Tom, I think I have it figured out. Here are the differences:

    1) The GM #3844493 is stamped from material 0.020" thicker than the 3887177. The 3844493 material is 0.177" and the 3887177 is 0.157".

    2) The two forks use slightly different , riveted-on retaining springs. I believe the GM #3844493 uses spring GM #3737456 whereas the GM #3887177 uses spring GM #3849698. There is little functional difference between these springs and configurational difference could not be discerned with the fork installed in the car.

    3) There MAY be a difference in the configuration of the ball stud seat between the two forks. The fork sent to me by Keith appears to have extreme wear in the ball stud seat area. The one Tom sent pictures of also appears to suffer from extreme wear. So, there's no way to tell, for sure, what the original configuration of the seat was. It appears now that the original seat may have been somewhat larger, but, as I say, that could just be due to wear.

    4) There are some other extremely minor differences in other dimensions between the 2 forks, but I believe these are either related to the difference in the material thickness between the two OR represent normal variances between stamped steel pieces like these. In any event, I would reard these differences to be totally inconsequential.

    It so happens that the ball stud changed at exactly the same time as the fork during the 1966 model year. However, the only difference in the studs was the length. The ball was the exact same diameter---0.603" for both. Still, it's curious that the ball stud would change at the same time as the fork AND the ball stud seat configuration of the 2 forks now be the only difference that remains in question.

    Save for the possible effect of the possible ball stud seat difference, from what I can measure or otherwise determine, there is no configurational difference between the 2 pieces that would affect the lever arms or mechanical advantage of either piece. So, I do not think that the change in these arms had anything to do with the other changes in the clutch release system that occurred during the 64-66 period. I've suspected that all along but now I feel confident that's the case.
    Attached Files
    In Appreciation of John Hinckley
  • Joe L.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 31, 1988
    • 43191

    #2
    Re: 64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

    Here's some more photos of the ball stud seat area and configurational differences between the springs used on the two forks (note that the 3844493 has a broken spring, so that's NOT a configurational difference I'm referring to here):
    Attached Files
    In Appreciation of John Hinckley

    Comment

    • Tom D.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • September 30, 1981
      • 2120

      #3
      Re: 64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

      Joe: Thanks for the photos. I will make a comparison with an early version later in the morning.

      td
      https://MichiganNCRS.org
      Michigan Chapter
      Tom Dingman

      Comment

      • Mike M.
        Director Region V
        • August 31, 1994
        • 1463

        #4
        Re: 64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

        Hi Joe
        Nicw pics, great research.
        Maybe it is the angle of the second pic, but it appears that the the two point throw-out bearing retainers on the #177 has a smaller/tighter crimp than the #493 that appears wider and more open.
        If this is relevent, is it possible that the throw-out bearing was changed and with the altered geometry, thus required the change in the pivot ball, those "retaining tangs", leading to the successive part #493?
        HaND

        Comment

        • Joe L.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • January 31, 1988
          • 43191

          #5
          Re: 64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

          Originally posted by Mike Murray (25129)
          Hi Joe
          Nicw pics, great research.
          Maybe it is the angle of the second pic, but it appears that the the two point throw-out bearing retainers on the #177 has a smaller/tighter crimp than the #493 that appears wider and more open.
          If this is relevent, is it possible that the throw-out bearing was changed and with the altered geometry, thus required the change in the pivot ball, those "retaining tangs", leading to the successive part #493?
          HaND
          Mike-----


          There is a slight difference in the "crimp" for the clutch release bearing spring retainer between the 2 forks. However, the difference is very slight and I can't really tell whether this is a design difference (i.e. intended) or if it just the result of variability of part-to-part as a result of tooling wear or other manufacturing "tolerances". In any event, I don't see how the difference would make for any functional difference in the parts. With heavy gauge stamped steel parts like this, tooling wear seems to be a major factor.

          The clutch release bearing was changed for the 1964 model year. From the previous 1-1/4" long bearing, it was shortened to a 1-7/32" long bearing. However, this same bearing was used from 1964 through 1980. So, there was no change in the bearing made coincident with the change of the 3844493 fork to the 3887177 fork. For the 1981 model year the release bearing changed back to the 1-1/4" long bearing, last used for the 1963 model year. This bearing also became the SERVICE bearing for all 1964-80 applications when the 1-7/32" long bearing was discontinued in January, 1982.
          In Appreciation of John Hinckley

          Comment

          • Mike M.
            Director Region V
            • August 31, 1994
            • 1463

            #6
            Re: 64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

            Just a thought, Joe. Udahman.
            HaND

            Comment

            • Joe L.
              Beyond Control Poster
              • January 31, 1988
              • 43191

              #7
              Re: 64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

              Originally posted by Mike Murray (25129)
              Just a thought, Joe. Udahman.
              HaND
              Mike-----


              I encourage and solicit all thoughts, observations, hypotheses, and theories. That's one of the main reasons I post stuff like this. Collectively, we may be able to figure something out
              In Appreciation of John Hinckley

              Comment

              • Terry M.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • September 30, 1980
                • 15569

                #8
                Re: 64-E66 Versus L66-81 Clutch Fork

                Looks like with a little (very little) polishing it would make a good Restorer item. You really ought to pass it on to Vinnie.
                Terry

                Comment

                Working...
                Searching...Please wait.
                An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                There are no results that meet this criteria.
                Search Result for "|||"