65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

[Tim S.]

The 65 L84 car I have is the first 65 fuel car I have had. I have had other F.I. cars and I am used to the cold start procedure as well as how long the engine has to crank in order to fire up. With my 65, this car starts IMO way too well. This is after one throttle depression per instruction. Warm start up is par usual with my prior experiences. Are 64-65's that much better or is my siphon valve out to lunch. As you can imagine, I do not want to hurt anything but nor do I want to tear into a GREAT running car. Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,
Tim

[Mike M.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

ain't broke, don't fix it. have fun with it. mike

[Dick W.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

AMEN to what the good doctor said. Don't touch it!

[Tim S.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

Am I to assume this is nornal for a 65 vs. earlier models? I already hydraulic locked one of my 63's and don't care to revisit that again.
Thanks guys!

[Dennis C.]

65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

Tim, I honestly believe most of the credit belongs to 3 of the previous owners of your particular car. Best, Dennis

[Jim L.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

With my 65, this car starts IMO way too well. Are 64-65's that much better or is my siphon valve out to lunch.

Sting Ray FI units start no more quickly than do their injected solid axle ancestors.

From your description, I think you are right to be wondering about the anti-siphon valve and I think you ought to do an experiment to convince yourself one way or another.

The experiment would be to pull the unit from your car, put it on a stand so you can observe the nozzle spray and then do a flow test, per the shop manual. At the conclusion of the flow test, watch the nozzles. Do they drip? If so, for how long? Or does the fuel flow shut off cleanly?

Any dripping that doesn't cease within a few seconds, or that never ceases would be cause, if that were my unit, for me to replace the anti-siphon check valve.

Good luck,

Jim

[Ted S.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

For my 65 its one pump when cold, or to the floor when hot. I also found she likes to be talked to nicely and for winter storage she likes 100 Sunoco (no stabilizer needed) After some excersize she likes a nice shower and body rub. The 65 Fuel Injected Corvette is what I respect.

[Joe R.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

Hey Guys,

Could someone tell me where the anti-siphon check valve is on the 63-65 FI units. I can't seem to find one on my unit. Maybe some shade tree mechanic has removed the one from my unit.

Help?

JR

[William C.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

As I recall, there are two, one internal to the high pressure passages in the fuelmeter, and a spring loaded one in the central distribution area of the fuel line spyder. I know they are covered in the Rochester service manuals. I agree with Jim, if it starts too easily when cold it's at least deserving of a check. The only one I ever owned that started real easy hydro-locked a rod shortly thereafter.

[Jim L.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

Hey Guys,

Could someone tell me where the anti-siphon check valve is on the 63-65 FI units. I can't seem to find one on my unit. Maybe some shade tree mechanic has removed the one from my unit.

The factory installed check valve is internal to the fuel meter, inboard side, just under the fuel meter lid. See the brass thing in the attached photo.

It is very unusual to see a 63-65 FI unit that has been retrofitted with an external solenoid valve because the fuel plumbing for Sting Ray units has two fuel pipes, a supply and a return. That greatly increases the difficulty of doing such a retrofit.

Jim

[Jack U.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

I think you should count your blessings.

My FI unit is currently at Jerry Bramlett's place for a restoration. It ran "mostly" well but needed to be "detailed out" because it had never been done along with fixing one nagging problem. I believe that I had a choke problem that forced me to warm up the car about 5 minutes before getting on the road. Starting the car in the midwest winters in a non-heated garage took long periods of time (but expected). Summer starts fired the engine on the first or second crank. It turns out (after dismantling the unit) there was much more wrong. I was surprised that it ran at all.

If you are unhappy, have a professional go through the unit. It's 6 to 8 weeks (plus) that you will be without use of the car but it will answer a lot of questions about what could be wrong.

[Alan D.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

Owned my 64FI (7380) since 67 so used it as my daily driver, to school, to skiing, to work. Always started with a quick touch of the key. That's normal for these late units. Of course you may be better with a carb, bet somebody will trade you even for that funny looking thing - oh its not the 1960's, never mind.

[John D.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

Tim, I read most of the replies to your post or at least scanned them and didn't see the correct answer. Also I am not 100% sure of your question.
Are you asking why it starts so quickly? If so then the answer is simple. The 7380 has a Skinner valve-a starting solenoid under the FI unit controlled by the burgundy micros switch,etc. It is designed so that when you hold the key in the start position the solenoid is energized or open. Gas actually by-passes the fuel meter bowl via a small copper bypass line leading to the solenoid. The fuel goes directly into the nozzles and therefore the unit starts immediately. Do you know that particular model will start without a drive cable? It will even start with a broken drive cable or a seized up hi-pressure pump. But it will only run for a few seconda.
I used to watch a salesman at Grabiak Chevrolet try and start new 65 FI's with little successs. His right foot used to go a 100mph and all he did was mess them up. I tried to show the dummy but he wasn't interested.
Read the owners manual as the directions are almost perfect. When the engine is warm or hot just smash the pedal to the floor and hold the key in the start position until it fires. Failure to do so will result in a flooded condition.
When it's cold just touch the accelerator pedal a tad so that the fast idle cam swings up on the hi step. Then it is very important that you hold the key in the start position without touching the pedal. If you do so you will drive the starting solenoid crazy by turning it on and off-on and off- and thereby have a difficult starting car.
A probably restored 63 will start fast also if it has been tweaked. But after a 63 sets for a couple of weeks you have to crank them some. With the 7380 unit that is not the case. If it is then you have a situation going on. JD

What's IMO??

[John D.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

Jim, Nice pic of the tiny part. I don't believe this part was ever serviced by RP or Chevy. I think it came with the casting. If anyone has a part number for it I would certainly appreciate having it. Frank Sciabica gave me a small pill bottle full of those valves in the early 80's. They were his pride and joy as he got them from the line he said. I cherished them for many years until a repro was made.
Good explanation of the two "supply" lines. Only the short line the screws into the bottom of the fuel bowl is the main fuel supply line. Therefore you can not easily install a shut off solenoid on this line. Now the long line is the return line. I have seen individuals install a solenoid on this line as they had no clue. The solenoid would not be affective at all.
A common misconception is that the 64-65 has a siphon breaker-shut off solenoid under the unit. This it 100% false. The solenoid is for starting only and has zero to do with siphon breaking. I have serviced many 7380 units that bent connecting rods.
If a fuel injection unit causes an engine to blow or bend a rod or two then here is typically the problem. The tiny anti-siphon valve in the fuel meter is stuck, the spider (RP called it a fuel distributor) assembly that feeds the nozzles, etc has a needle and seat in it similiar to one under a carb or FI float. If that seat sticks from gummed up gas, dirt, or bubba attempting to resolder a leaking copper line back into the center fitting then the engine is going to suffer.
We have Syphon (siphon) breaker kits for 57, 58 to 62, but as of the moment none for the midyears. But I would say in the near future there may be one available although it will not be for the general public to install unless they know what they are doing.
If a midyear has a spider that has a check valve that will shut off 100% lilke the one Micro Controls reproduces and it has a new tiny anti-siphon check valve in the fuel meter and the owner doesn't let the car stack up in the corner with all the other collector cars and starts the thing regularly with good clean fuel then you shouldn't have any problems what so ever.

[Tim S.]

Re: 65 F.I. Starting Characteristics

John,
Thanks for chiming in! My car starts REAL nicely. That is why I expressed concern. I was not sure in my own knowledge as it pertains the the characteristics of the 7380 unit. Even after the article in the recent Restorer, I had doubts. Like Dennis said, I have the 3 previous owners to thank. IMO= in my opinion. Sorry, I get a little lazy from time to time.
Also, I do have someone who has and can install the fuel solenoids in 63-65 units. It is not easy, but can be done. We did this after a couple of connecting rods gave up on a 63 I had. If you or anyone is interested, I can supply his information.
With this peace of mind I have now, I'm going to the garage, hang a coat of wax on the car, and have a cold one. Thanks to all who replied.


Tim