G.M. demise

[Martin T.]

[Dale S.]

Re: G.M. demise

Thank you for posting. You would never see that on the news. Dale

[Clem Z.]

Re: G.M. demise

the only problem i see is who is GM going to hire to do the work ? if the UAW workers come back without any contracts,benefits and lower pay they will sabotage the cars like they did at lordstown ohio. john hinkley can tell you about that

[Martin T.]

Re: G.M. demise

Perhaps a compromise deal. Maybe the model should be partnership between workers, management and venture capitalists. It seems that given the serious nature and need for an immediate fix, steps need to be taken in ernest by all. Mitt Romney speaks of the need for management to get lean and serve as an example for the blue collar workers. People are generally willing to work together toward a common goal as long as they see everyone contributing equally and working toward a common and proportionate reward. In such a scenerio we are not talking socialism but capitalism in it's purist form (put your neck on the line and share the profits).

[Ken B.]

Re: G.M. demise

I'm not sure what to think anymore. I know that when i was growing up my dad told me something that i hold dear till today. "Don't count on anyone but yourself". I Don't think the government is responsible to bail anyone out. The big 3 has made all the problems by themselves.How long would it take them to burn through the 25 billion? Not very long. Then what? Ask for more...I just don't know anymore. Maybe the government should not have bailed anyone out ....I think it will just cause more companies to ask for more..

[Bill M.]

Re: G.M. demise

I am a union man i run a 3 million square foot building in mid town New york . I run this building day and night with 16 men. I have ben told to cut overtime to the bone and to be ready to give up one of my men. You see the value of the company has dropped and it needs help .I was sitting in a lunch room with 13 different types of management people for the same building. No mention of management layoffs. I'll bet the meetings are the same at GM.
GM management and all management needs to become truthfull if they ever expect to keep operating. I am sure that the UAW sees the writing on the wall and wants to save as many jobs as they can.

Bill

[Stuart F.]

Re: G.M. demise

To say the companies brought this all on themselves is not really fair. Did they bring about the energy crisis in the 70's or the latest this past year? Much of it is world politics, the failures of our Government, the environmentalists who ride public transit and could care less about those of us who don't have that luxury available to us in the small towns and countryside. There is a lot of fault to go around.

Probably the cruelist part of these plans is the idea of reducing or eliminating the so called pension burden. There are many retirees who worked long and hard and were not able to save much in IRA's and 401K's for what ever reason (only available later in their careers). Many depend on that pension income to subsist just above the poverty level afforded by Social Security. Many of these people have no voice, no leverage, and no ability (due to their ages and physical disabilities) to go out and get another job at this point in their lives. Now, I'm not talking about the airline pilots who banked bundles during their careers expecting to draw as much in retirement as when they were on the line or Government workers, rather the poor grunts who slaved away at low income level jobs with manufacturing companies like GM. A lot of people think of the retirees as living the good life here in Florida, wearing short pants and out on the golf links every day. Believe me, those are the exceptions, not the rule. But again, who looks out for them? What value are they except at election time only as a single vote? It's cruel.

[Paul H.]

Re: G.M. demise

Mitt Romney is brilliant when it comes to financial matters and one of the few politicians from Mass that I can be proud of as a Mass resident. I agree with his plan. Unfortunately, the UAW has been steadfast in it's reluctance to accept any wage/benefit reductions. It certainly beats not having a job.

[Terry M.]

Re: G.M. demise

......There is a lot of fault to go around.

Probably the cruelist part of these plans is the idea of reducing or eliminating the so called pension burden. There are many retirees who worked long and hard and were not able to save much in IRA's and 401K's for what ever reason (only available later in their careers). Many depend on that pension income to subsist just above the poverty level afforded by Social Security. Many of these people have no voice, no leverage, and no ability (due to their ages and physical disabilities) to go out and get another job at this point in their lives. Now, I'm not talking about the airline pilots who banked bundles during their careers expecting to draw as much in retirement as when they were on the line or Government workers, rather the poor grunts who slaved away at low income level jobs with manufacturing companies like GM. A lot of people think of the retirees as living the good life here in Florida, wearing short pants and out on the golf links every day. Believe me, those are the exceptions, not the rule. But again, who looks out for them? What value are they except at election time only as a single vote? It's cruel.

Those airline pilots -- or any other worker who invested to fund their retirement, is now in a pile of do-do as well. The world financial crisis has shot a big hole in those investments, and the planned income is no longer there. And whose fault is that? Not the person who figured to live off his own sweat -- like we were all told to do.

Add to that those retired persons whose company is or will go out of business, and there are a lot of folks who worked all their lives, planned and saved well, and through no fault of their own are now on financial hard times.

We are all in this together, and until we stop pointing fingers and stop expecting someone else to ride up on a white horse and save us -- the problem will not be solved. Our parents had to fight the hard-scrabble life during the Great Depression, and it looks like we will have a similar experience.

"What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger."

I am thinking a WPA and/or CCC type of infrastructure improvement plan will help, but it will mean we have to all pitch in. It will also be a long-term task. There is no magic pill for what ails this country or the world. I’m not sure anyone now on the political scene can lead the masses effectively into that kind of agenda. We will see.

[Martin T.]

Re: G.M. demise

I think Bill and Stu bring up very important issues. Management needs to serve as an example and tighten it's belt as much as labor (perhaps more so). Look at what happened with AIG after it's bailout money was issued. What a slap in the face to all of us. Stu is right also in that retirees should not be simply asked to forfit there retirements (especially if those benefits were taken from their paychecks and placed into a union retirement fund). Unions should shed the dead weight as well and work together with management and labor.
While Mitt Romney's plan may have a few flaws the basics seem on the money. To pull this country out of the mess it finds itself in it seems the only sane thing to do is work together. I don't know about most others but if I spend all my money nobody is standing there with an open check book to hand me more.
Ultimately, I really want to see the survival of these companies and do not want to see them asborbed into the portfolio of some Saudi or Chinese investor nor continued to be run into the ground by poor management, excessive spending or abusive entitlements.

[Bill M.]

Re: G.M. demise

I am not blaming management or labor.Pay was established for all beginning after WW 2. Things were great and all made money. Then after we dumped billions into rebuilding Japan and Europe the tide began to turn. We lost manufacturing of everthing but cars. Why? because we are not on leval playing field. When you do not pay your people well you can afford to dump your product on gullable countries like ours.
I remember in the 80's Mayor of New York Ed Koch replying to all of the manufacturing jobs that were fleeing New York "we will have all of the high paying data jobs " we all know where they are now. We don' have much left to lose.
When we begin to import cheap Politicians and Lawyers then we will have real Change

[Joe C.]

Re: G.M. demise

Do any of you hold GM, Ford or Chrysler bonds? If these companies go Chapter 11, those bonds become worthless.
What about those of you that own stock in these companies?
How about those that retired 10-20 years ago?
Do these people lose all their pension benefits?

The govt should supply any necessary loans, in order to protect those people mentioned above, but with strings attached, whereby future contracts are limited and immediate plans are provided. Oversight must be provided, and terms must be strict.

[Timothy B.]

Re: G.M. demise

I agree with all the responces and agree that a huge infrastructure plan is a good idea. Difference in this day is that all our politicans will do is fight over what minority group gets the funds. Call that fair?? I just don't think these people (politicans) are living in the same world as most of us and it sure is looking like we just elected the same old people.

[Jack H.]

Re: G.M. demise

Well said, Terry...

There were many more affected by the airline bankruptcies than just the 'fat cat' pilots. The ground mechanics and stew's got clipped as well.

The core problem is how to continue with a business model that's begging to become part of the buggywhip era. Free enterprise eventually takes its toll on those who've become non-competitive in relation to their global competitors.

We've seen it with high flyers like Xerox, Polaroid, and IBM. We can't continue paying wages and supporting a life style that's well above the rest of the world UNLESS...

Unless what? Unless we STOP arguing over how to cut the pie and concentrate on how we continue to make the pie bigger! For good and valid historic reasons the relationship between management/ownership and labor in the US automotive industry is one of the sharpest zero sum games around. That needs to change.

To continue our current course (standard of living elevated above the rest of the world to the extent it is), we need to create 3-4 new Bill Gates types each generation. I fear that won't happen without the next generation(s) WAKING UP to the fact that there are many in the 3rd world with the basic educational tools to effectively compete with them, work for less, work harder/longer days, deliver world class products & services and the desire to eat our lunch...

When we have a 'new' industry/technology/service that's in high demand, it IS possible to ride high on the learning curve, extract price/profit premiums and not have to sweat the cost accounting details of optimizing to the 3rd or 6th decimal place. But, when that industry/technology/service becomes a rote commodity those with superior source cost structures reap a competitive advantage that can be KILLER issues.

It's just too darn easy for younger ones to 'waltz' through school paying lip service to their basic education in the knowledge they don't really need all that "*&^% they learned in high school" because they can make significant 'quick bucks' by dealing in drugs, prostitution, Etc...

[Duke W.]

Re: G.M. demise

Romney's op-ed was published in the WSJ and linked on Drudge, and I think he also presented it in a speech. Mitt knows his stuff - successful businessman and governor, plus I never met a Morman I didn't like - very hard working, forthright, honest, and trustworthy folks. I even once new a Morman who told great jokes on a regular basis, and they were all, of course, G-rated.

Romney was my pick for Pres, but I was not able to vote for him in the California primary. The brain-dead California Republican party would not allow non-party affliliated voters to vote their ballot. The Democrats did, but I passed and just took the "non-partisan" ballot with all the important stuff like local dog catcher, etc.

Duke