reproduction parts

[John D.]

Re: reproduction parts

Actually that's the case right now. Burns me up when I see someone selling a repro 63 to 65 FI choke cover that old JD here was instrumental in having made. The seller insists on selling it as NOS and it ain't. It's a repro. Now the way to tell is this. The originals had a "stake" in them near the edge. A straight line put in with a sharp chiesel. You know what it's for. Well the repro doesn't have this.
Just one example. JD

[John D.]

Re: reproduction parts

Actually there are a lot of good repro parts out there for our Corvettes. There are also some that are not so good. You have to be creative today. Take a good repro part and "massage" it so it looks like the real deal. Take a new ugly bluish zinc fake part and work it over and then get it cadmium plated to soften it up. You know the parts we bought over the counter for our midyears, etc. were not a work of art. I mean some of the crap that Chevy sold and I (we) bought isn't good enough for a rusty pickup truck as old Dale Pearman used to say.
We are lucky that companies are making repro parts. But as I said before if you think you are going to need that part-whether it be perfect of not-you had better grab it today. As tomorrow it probably won't be here. Guys think they are going to strike it rich on a repro part only to find out they barely broke even. Been there.
With the auto industry down the tubes banks are not lending money to the little guy to have these parts reproduced.
Good FI parts that I took for granted (like choke covers) are now history. It's depressing.

[Roy B.]

Re: reproduction parts

Actually there are a lot of good repro parts out there for our Corvettes. There are also some that are not so good. You have to be creative today. Take a good repro part and "massage" it so it looks like the real deal. Take a new ugly bluish zinc fake part and work it over and then get it cadmium plated to soften it up. You know the parts we bought over the counter for our midyears, etc. were not a work of art. I mean some of the crap that Chevy sold and I (we) bought isn't good enough for a rusty pickup truck as old Dale Pearman used to say.
We are lucky that companies are making repro parts. But as I said before if you think you are going to need that part-whether it be perfect of not-you had better grab it today. As tomorrow it probably won't be here. Guys think they are going to strike it rich on a repro part only to find out they barely broke even. Been there.
With the auto industry down the tubes banks are not lending money to the little guy to have these parts reproduced.
Good FI parts that I took for granted (like choke covers) are now history. It's depressing.

I repro the 55 Corvette (DELETED) and tell people that think it was cheap to make (think again) and I'm just about to run out of them and dont care to do more.

[Dennis C.]

reproduction parts

Roy, Why don't you run that ad in The Driveline. It's free and that's where it belongs.

[Roy B.]

Re: reproduction parts

Roy, Why don't you run that ad in The Driveline. It's free and that's where it belongs.

I was making a point NOT selling them here , Gee it's like saying (any one know were I can get a part or repro's it) now a sin , OK I'll take it down!!!!

[Joe L.]

Re: reproduction parts

Actually there are a lot of good repro parts out there for our Corvettes. There are also some that are not so good. You have to be creative today. Take a good repro part and "massage" it so it looks like the real deal. Take a new ugly bluish zinc fake part and work it over and then get it cadmium plated to soften it up. You know the parts we bought over the counter for our midyears, etc. were not a work of art. I mean some of the crap that Chevy sold and I (we) bought isn't good enough for a rusty pickup truck as old Dale Pearman used to say.
We are lucky that companies are making repro parts. But as I said before if you think you are going to need that part-whether it be perfect of not-you had better grab it today. As tomorrow it probably won't be here. Guys think they are going to strike it rich on a repro part only to find out they barely broke even. Been there.
With the auto industry down the tubes banks are not lending money to the little guy to have these parts reproduced.
Good FI parts that I took for granted (like choke covers) are now history. It's depressing.

John-----


That's right; reproduction parts get discontinued, too. Then, when there are NO parts available, you'd be surprised how valuable those "incorrect" reproductions are going to be.

There are lots of reasons for reproduction parts not being exactly like the originals. One of the reasons is that there is NO oversight through the GM Restoration Parts Program. While they do provide the licensed reproduction manufacturer the original prints for the part and, if it's available, the original tooling, they make absolutely NO requirement that the part be manufactured to the exact, original specification. Mainly, what they offer is the rights to use GM trademarks and to brand the parts as GM Reproduction Parts. From what I've seen, the reproduction sources can put the GM trademarks and "GM Restoration Parts" branding on just about whatever part they want to sell.

The biggest problem with reproduction parts, though, is a much more fundamental one. In most cases, the original tooling is NOT available. So, new tooling has to be produced before a part can be made. Making up tooling is VERY expensive. In PRODUCTION, the cost of the tooling is amortized over a very large number of pieces. After PRODUCTION use of the part ceases, the tooling remains available for GM SERVICE pieces for quite awhile. So, PRODUCTION-quality SERVICE parts are available from GM, often until the tooling breaks or wears out.

NO reproduction source can afford to produce tooling like the PRODUCTION tooling. The cost is WAY, WAY more than could ever be recouped through the sales of reproduction parts. So, cheaper tooling is used. Cheaper tooling = parts that don't measure up to the originals. It's that simple.

[John M.]

Re: reproduction parts

That's right; reproduction parts get discontinued, too. Then, when there are NO parts available, you'd be surprised how valuable those "incorrect" reproductions are going to be.

There are lots of reasons for reproduction parts not being exactly like the originals. One of the reasons is that there is NO oversight through the GM Restoration Parts Program. While they do provide the licensed reproduction manufacturer the original prints for the part and, if it's available, the original tooling, they make absolutely NO requirement that the part be manufactured to the exact, original specification. Mainly, what they offer is the rights to use GM trademarks and to brand the parts as GM Reproduction Parts. From what I've seen, the reproduction sources can put the GM trademarks and "GM Restoration Parts" branding on just about whatever part they want to sell.

The biggest problem with reproduction parts, though, is a much more fundamental one. In most cases, the original tooling is NOT available. So, new tooling has to be produced before a part can be made. Making up tooling is VERY expensive. In PRODUCTION, the cost of the tooling is amortized over a very large number of pieces. After PRODUCTION use of the part ceases, the tooling remains available for GM SERVICE pieces for quite awhile. So, PRODUCTION-quality SERVICE parts are available from GM, often until the tooling breaks or wears out.

NO reproduction source can afford to produce tooling like the PRODUCTION tooling. The cost is WAY, WAY more than could ever be recouped through the sales of reproduction parts. So, cheaper tooling is used. Cheaper tooling = parts that don't measure up to the originals. It's that simple.

Joe,

This is all well and good, but it doesn't explain not bothering to get the font right (or even close) on a printed label - I will agree that some parts are much harder to reproduce than others.

[Dennis C.]

reproduction parts

Roy, Is it too late to order one of your few remaining reproduction 1955 Corvettes...?

[Roy B.]

Re: reproduction parts

Roy, Is it too late to order one of your few remaining reproduction 1955 Corvettes...?

Pretty soon all gone.

[James W.]

Re: reproduction parts

Mike

I stand corrected. Been a whole since I judged C2s. Roby was very cool; a real C2 nut as well. Never forget at one of the Texas meets he and another member disagreed on whether fuelies or big blocks were faster. They went heads up. Forget who he ran, but I almost passed out. This was when 435 cars were going for $125,000 to $175,000.

Jim

[Dale S.]

Re: reproduction parts

Would it be agaist the rules to post the supplier that you got the poor quality repro part from and what was wrong with it? It would save some members from having to return or keep in correct parts. I have a box of new repro parts in the garage that some are so- so others not even close. I understand Mr. Sharpton anguish. Thank you Dale

[Roy B.]

Re: reproduction parts

Would it be agaist the rules to post the supplier that you got the poor quality repro part from and what was wrong with it? It would save some members from having to return or keep in correct parts. I have a box of new repro parts in the garage that some are so- so others not even close. I understand Mr. Sharpton anguish. Thank you Dale

A good idea but think it would be your opinion that others don't share, parts could be compared in a pic's showing the detail of the original, as I have tried to do on 55. I get little response , so few 55 owners!
But when you show repro parts ( one to another repro) you'll have to name names and that I think would be wrong. Just post a pic of the original and let people do their own comparing when buying a repro. I never mention a supplier's name, that is just the cost of restoring a Corvette , you lose about 20% $$$ in learning which part is best.

[Mark P.]

Re: reproduction parts

What would be real helpful is to know which repro parts pass judging on a consistent basis. I am surprised that the tooling isn't being reproduced to tighter tolerances. I was an apprentice machinist in a tool and die shop 25 years ago and we really strived to maintain the tolerances or we remade the tooling. I bought a repro clock bezel that fits loose on the clock and is extremely tight in the console. I decided to get my original one rechromed and avoid repros where ever I can. If I have to buy a repro then I will and will keep looking for an original.

[John M.]

Re: reproduction parts

...that is just the cost of restoring a Corvette, you lose about 20% $$$ in learning which part is best.

More like 30% to 40%, but I agree with the general theorem.

[Jack H.]

Re: reproduction parts

Some of this repeats what others have said, but here ARE reasons for why reproduction parts are different from factory originals...

(1) Licensing fees are STEEP and given a supplier's unknown factors (how many will I really sell?) act as a financial deterrent.

(2) Once a licensee has 'negotiated' his reproduction license, he may receive a part's drawing 'wrapper' with TONS of technical information to digest (running changes over time, Etc.). Most are basically small businessmen and LACK an engineering staff to read/interpret the data they get from GM to make intelligent decisions as to how many variations of the widget they need to cover their bases... So, they simply 'wing it' and go to the last known supplier who probably made the 'service replacement' form of the part.

(3) There were reasons for WHY GM made running changes in parts. Some are based on expanding the served available market (being downward compatible) and others deal with improving the part (more durable, better fitting, Etc.).

(4) Further on the above point, the market is multi-modal with NCRS and other factory concours organizations constituting a MINORITY of the buying public. Others want parts that simply fit & function at the lowest possible price. Some actually want the part made different/better, e.g. stainless steel vs. rust prone standard carbon steel or polished, triple chrome plating vs. cheap flash/smack chrome with ugly, worn tooling, striations in the part's stamped contours...

(5) In some cases it's NOT POSSIBLE to make the part as it was originally made because the original tooling doesn't exist and it would cost a FORTUNE to re-tool.

(6) In other cases it's NOT POSSIBLE to make the part as it was originally made because Federal law prohibits such in the name of safety.

(7) Yet another reason for not making a part as it was originally made is the basic material is no longer available...might be banned due to health + environmental legislation. Plastics and paint are obviously impacted in this category.

(8) Then, there's the factor of downright ignorance. The supplier didn't know that this/that aspect of the part was important (didn't do his/her homework) and he'd already executed his build/stock order...

Bottom line, how many reasons do you really want? This topic comes up frequently and the answer(s) are generally the same. Don't whip a dead horse!

That's why there's a form of 'art' to this sport/hobby of restoration/preservation. If you want to do it right, you HAVE to roll up your sleeves and negotiate the learning curve (with all its frustrations) and self-educate on the journey. You can't simply crack a 'how to' book and write checks UNLESS you're willing to pay top dollar to someone who's been there, done that, got the award/T-shirt. And even then there's no guarantee each/every aspect of the restoration is going to be 'correct'....