Paint Judging?

[Ken K.]

In the fall 2004 Volume 31 of the Restorer, Roy Sinor covered Paint judging.
If you have base coat with clear coat I think that it would get a 50% deduct on the 45 points of Originality and a 50% to 100% deduct of the 40 points for condition.
I think the condition would only get a 50% deduction if all of the door jams and hood lips were dull.
I think that a base coat with clear coat would get a deduct of 42 to 62 points.
What do you think? Is there a standard that Roy has published?
Thank you for your views on this.

[Harry S.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Ken, yes there is a standard. But the standard only affects the point calculation process.

This is an extreme example. You can paint your car with a brush and latex paint, if it look factory applied there should be no point deduct.

[Mike G.]

Re: Paint Judging?

make it look like the original paint and you get 100% of the points. it takes some effort but its done every day.

[Dale C.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Hi Ken There is a standard deduction now. It was done to make judging paint more uniform. I have the deduction sheet and home and get back in touch with you. As far as the door jambs and the hood lips go, the judges will look at the car first and if in there opinion it is a base coat/clear coat, then they will look at the doors jambs. What we want to see is a duller finish on the door jambs. They will also look and the front of the door in the hinge area and look for very light paint in that area. The jambs can be dulled down with a corase rubbing compound and after the judging process is completed then buffed. They will also look to see if the paint has rolled to the edges. That can be sanded smooth also. I will get you the standard deductions. Dale P.S. Your car lookes great.

[Michael H.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Hi Ken There is a standard deduction now. It was done to make judging paint more uniform. I have the deduction sheet and home and get back in touch with you. As far as the door jambs and the hood lips go, the judges will look at the car first and if in there opinion it is a base coat/clear coat, then they will look at the doors jambs. What we want to see is a duller finish on the door jambs. They will also look and the front of the door in the hinge area and look for very light paint in that area. The jambs can be dulled down with a corase rubbing compound and after the judging process is completed then buffed. They will also look to see if the paint has rolled to the edges. That can be sanded smooth also. I will get you the standard deductions. Dale P.S. Your car lookes great.

What if just some of the areas of paint in the door jamb are glossy? Are judges looking to see if all is dull?

[Edward S.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Don't know if I am correct or not but I have heard at more than one meeting areas that are checked ore the drip rail around the engine compartment and the area around the vents grilles nder the wipers.

[Michael H.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Don't know if I am correct or not but I have heard at more than one meeting areas that are checked ore the drip rail around the engine compartment and the area around the vents grilles nder the wipers.

My guess is that paint gloss on the wiper grills on a new car would look no different than some area on the lower half of a door on the same car.

[Harry S.]

Re: Paint Judging?

What many folks/judges have forgotten is that original paint no matter where it was sprayed on the car had a shine. Some of the resto-shops today actually make the jams and other areas too dull.

After buffing out original paint is where the differences came out between the body and the jams.

[Michael H.]

Re: Paint Judging?

What many folks/judges have forgotten is that original paint no matter where it was sprayed on the car had a shine. Some of the resto-shops today actually make the jams and other areas too dull.

After buffing out original paint is where the differences came out between the body and the jams.

Good point Harry. The only problem is, the boys at the St Louis plant didn't do a whole lotta buffing. Top/horizontal surfaces got a quick pass, the sides of the body down to about the center of the panels, and that's about it.

[Ridge K.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Quote:
Viewing the exterior only, if the paint appears totally unlike factory applied material, 100% deduction of originality points and subsequently 100% deduction of the condition points as well.

This subject came up just last August, when a fellow member lost 100% of his points, due to door jams, and wiper grilles being too shiny. As I remember, not many came forward and stated that losing 100% of paint points is wrong, when I fellow member has carefully repainted in the exact same color as their Corvette left the factory paint booth. I do remember many kind, and helpful comments to him about "how to dull down the door jams".
Thanks in advance for someone being able to explain to me where this deduct was fair and just, or was the national judging chairman wrong? Ridge.

[Harry S.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Ridge, the exterior judging team is to judge the paint with the doors closed. If they feel the paint looks like factory, they are done. They are not suppose to look at the jams and take no deducts.

Saying that, if they feel the paint does not look factory, then they are to look elsewhere.

[Mike M.]

Re: Paint Judging?

At the risk of repeating myself from the earlier thread that went into infinite detail about a month ago (Please check the Archives)
The term, having now evolved into "Dull" is a misnomer. I believe we all aggreed in that earlier excercize that the expected finish in the "Hidden" area may be rougher (unbuffed) and/or with possible varying degrees of overspray, not "Dull".
I believe it was John Hinckley who posted a Thumbnail of the current published format. Following this and the other accompanying descriptions should allow an accurate, consistent and non-subjective detemination of the exterior finish.
HaND

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint Judging?

Ken, I think you're missing the point regarding the new judging rule(s) on paint & fiberglass. There are two separate line items for paint (years ago there was only a single line item): color & paint.

The clear coat factor applies to the paint line item and it's always been NCRS policy (still is) that the OBVIOUS use of 2-step base coat/clear coat on cars that weren't originally manufactured this way constitutes a FULL deduction for both originality and condition regarding the 'paint' line item during judging...

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Paint Judging?

In the fall 2004 Volume 31 of the Restorer, Roy Sinor covered Paint judging.
If you have base coat with clear coat I think that it would get a 50% deduct on the 45 points of Originality and a 50% to 100% deduct of the 40 points for condition.
I think the condition would only get a 50% deduction if all of the door jams and hood lips were dull.
I think that a base coat with clear coat would get a deduct of 42 to 62 points.
What do you think? Is there a standard that Roy has published?
Thank you for your views on this.

We lost all 85 points for shiney jams,hood rails & front & rear bumper aera at the Indiana meet. I was told that no originality points & no condition points are awarded if you have these areas that are not dull. WE all still got Top Flights. If you have a otherwise great Corvette take the hit or dull the areas they want dull. SIMPLE
KEN

[Erv M.]

Re: Paint Judging?

This is where the NCRS alienates the motor enthusiast. If it is the right color and the condition or application is slightly different from the factory paint job hasn't the Mission Statement of the preservation of a corvette been obtained? A 100% deduct seems very steep to me.

I have been pricing paint jobs and the price tags are outrageous. In the $18K - $25k range to change the color back to original. Then comes the judging to see if the dollars you spent are worth anything.

Is it better to preserve more cars that to have the perfect subpar paint job that the original cars came with. Don't get me wrong, yes an original paint surface should be awarded more points, however are we here to promote the preservation of corvettes or support and promote the specialty repair shops that can reproduce a finish close to the original specifications.

At the end of the day when you repaint a car it is no longer original. But you do so in the process of restoring the car and preserving it to as close to original specification within reasonability.