Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

[Joe G.]

Hello everyone,

My tie rod tubes have a groove on one end. I am curious to the orientation/location of the grooved end on the tie rod tube, inboard or outboard? I know how my steering assembly came apart - the grooved end was outboard toward the steering knuckle. A search came up with some info from Joe Lucia as to the left/right threading and the yellow paint denoting right hand threads. This would put the groove on the tube on the left handed thread tie rod side.

What has me confused is whether or not my tie rod assemblies were removed at some point and put back in 180 degrees out. I wonder this because my tie rod ends with yellow inspection paint are on the inboard side (attach at relay rod) and not outboard like the TIM & JG notes. Both sides are identical. Or maybe it went down the line like this?

Any observations out there? Car is a 71.

Thanks,
Joe

[Joe G.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

Maybe an easier way to ask this ... Has anyone observed yellow inspection marks on the inboard tie rod ends vs. the outboard position as the TIM suggests?

Joe

[Jim S.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

By convention, the LH threaded tie rod ends are to be outboard at the steering arms. From a functional standpoint, Corvette tie rod assemblies can be attached either way. Maybe this sketch and AIM sheet will help.


Jim

[Joe G.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

Thanks for the info Jim. My AIM has something similar to figure #2 but without the clamping instructions. According to figure 1 and what you said, then it is setup correctly with the yellow inspection marks on the inboard side and the grooves outboard. Interestingly my bolts for the clamps were installed opposite to the direction in step A.

Thanks for posting those drawings.

Joe

[Jim S.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

In a nutshell, here is a six step summary on how to position production clamps and tie rod ends according to the AIM. (You must use shop manual or AIM torque specs and cotter pins as specified for all fasteners.)

1). Production adjuster tubes have a groove on one end. Assemble the tie rod assemblies to the relay rod so that the groove is located outboard on each side. (Left hand threads outboard on each side.)
2). Tip the outer tie rod ends rearward. Tip the inner tie rod ends down.
3). The inner tie rod clamp bolts should be positioned under the tube, horizontal, with the nut rearward.
4). The outer tie rod clamp bolts should be positioned to the rear of the tube, vertical, with the nut down.
5). Locate the center of the clamps 1/2 inch from the adjuster tube ends.
6). If necessary rotate a clamp a maximum of 45 degrees either direction so that the slit in the adjuster tube is not in line with the slot in the clamp.

Jim

[John H.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

The system was designed that way for a reason. The steering linkage assembly (relay rod, tie rods, steering idler, and pitman arm) from Buffalo was pulled out of the shipping gondola, placed in a bench-top fixture that located the pitman arm and steering idler, and a rough pre-set adjustment was made with the sleeves to put the outer tie rod ends where they belonged; then the assembly was installed on the upside-down frame after the front suspension was installed.

When the car pulled into the toe-in pit at the end of the line, the driver installed a steering wheel centering tool that located to the top of the door and held the steering wheel in the level straight-ahead position.

The pit operator started the machine, which had powered rollers under the front tires to rotate them; those rollers were mounted on a pivoting plate with sensors that fed toe angle information to two large dials in front of the operator.

The operator adjusted the driver's side sleeve to get the specified angle on that dial, then adjusted the passenger side sleeve to get the specified angle on that dial, and then touched-up the adjustment to bring the "total toe" angle within specs. When all was green, the clamps were positioned correctly on the sleeves and tightened, the machine was shut down, the driver removed the steering wheel centering tool and placed it on the post next to the car, and drove on to the roll-test machine.

If the car needed the steering wheel straight-ahead position tweaked at or after delivery, all the mechanic had to do was to rotate both sleeves exactly the same amount in the same direction to center the steering wheel, and that wouldn't affect the toe-in setting.

[Alan S.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

Hi John,
Great description and photo! Thanks!
Regards,
Alan

[Joe L.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

By convention, the LH threaded tie rod ends are to be outboard at the steering arms. From a functional standpoint, Corvette tie rod assemblies can be attached either way. Maybe this sketch and AIM sheet will help.


Jim

Curiously, GM P&A information for Corvettes has always shown that tie rod end GM #3826814, the RIGHT HAND threaded piece, to be the OUTER tie rod end. I have a large number of NOS examples of this rod end and all have a YELLOW mark.

It shows tie rod end, GM #3826596, the LEFT HAND threaded piece, to be the INNER tie rod end. I have a large number of NOS examples of this tie rod end, too, and most have no dye mark but a few have a BLUE dye mark.

It may very well be that this information is inaccurate, though, as it is "right column" part description information and I have sometimes found that information to be inaccurate. Certainly, I've found the "right column" information to be more inaccurate than anything else in P&A catalogs.

[Jim S.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

There is a Bair's Parts & Services add from a recent NCRS Driveline where they advertise a 1963-82 adjuster tube. They call out in the ad "MADE LIKE ORIGINAL With groove to Designate Left Hand Thread".

Jim

[Joe L.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

There is a Bair's Parts & Services add from a recent NCRS Driveline where they advertise a 1963-82 adjuster tube. They call out in the ad "MADE LIKE ORIGINAL With groove to Designate Left Hand Thread".

Jim

Jim-----


I don't question, at all, the information you've provided. It seems very definitive to me. Also, I don't doubt the fact that the tie rod sleeve end with the groove is the end with the left hand thread.

The thing I'm trying to figure out is why the reference to inner and outer being apparently reversed in the P&A Catalog. As I mentioned, there are sometimes errors in this part of the part description information. However, they are often based on "anachronisms" (i.e. situations where a part changes over time but the description doesn't change) OR situations in which a part is used for multiple applications and the functionality changes for different applications but the description remains "static".

The other issue is the several reported observations of the outer tie rod end being marked with a yellow dye mark. As I mentioned, from the NOS pieces I have, I find the yellow marks on the GM #3826814 which I believe is the right thread piece. I'm going to look through my stock of these pieces and see if I've made a mistake somewhere. Perhaps I've mis-identified and reversed the left and right thread tie rod ends. That would explain EVERYTHING.

[Joe L.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

There is a Bair's Parts & Services add from a recent NCRS Driveline where they advertise a 1963-82 adjuster tube. They call out in the ad "MADE LIKE ORIGINAL With groove to Designate Left Hand Thread".

Jim

Jim-----


I checked my NOS examples of the GM #3826814 and 3826596 tie rod ends. I have confirmed that the 3826814 is the one with the right hand thread. It's also the one with the yellow die mark. Almost every one of the many I have show the yellow dye mark somewhere on the body of the joint.

The 3826596 is the one that has the left hand thread. None of the ones I found had any die mark on them. However, I am virtually certain that one of the ones I probably have in another bin has a blue mark on it.

Below are photos of the 3826814 and the 3826596. Note the standard, right hand thread hex nut that I've threaded on to the 3826814 to confirm its thread type.

[Michael H.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

Hello everyone,

My tie rod tubes have a groove on one end. I am curious to the orientation/location of the grooved end on the tie rod tube, inboard or outboard? I know how my steering assembly came apart - the grooved end was outboard toward the steering knuckle. A search came up with some info from Joe Lucia as to the left/right threading and the yellow paint denoting right hand threads. This would put the groove on the tube on the left handed thread tie rod side.

What has me confused is whether or not my tie rod assemblies were removed at some point and put back in 180 degrees out. I wonder this because my tie rod ends with yellow inspection paint are on the inboard side (attach at relay rod) and not outboard like the TIM & JG notes. Both sides are identical. Or maybe it went down the line like this?

Any observations out there? Car is a 71.

Thanks,
Joe

Not trying to throw a wrench into the works here but some production tie rod sleeves didn't have a groove on either end.
Often, the left hand (?) thread end of the sleeve was marked with yellow paint instead of a groove, for what ever that's worth.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

Can someone post a picture showing this groove. I thought both ends of the sleeve had a groove. Thanks

[Joe G.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

Here is the groove I was referencing. It goes around the circumference at the end of the upper tube in the photo. The bottom tube is the other end.
Joe

[Joe G.]

Re: Tie Rod Tube Groove Orientation

Thanks for all of the input guys. I plan on putting it back the way it came apart with the yellow marked tie rod ends inboard. It is also interesting to note that my relay rod was black with evidence of one white stripe between the idler arm and passenger's tie rod hole. I could not find a stripe on the other side.
Joe