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1960: A good one for the Forum!

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  • James S.
    Expired
    • June 22, 2008
    • 226

    1960: A good one for the Forum!

    While installing the front engine mount, I noticed that the passenger side portion sits flush to the water inlet hole, while the driver side rests partially on the head leaving a small gap about 1/64th of an inch. I could see from the original factory install, the back or the driver's side engine mount had a small crease from the head casting flashing when the mount is torqued. It appears to me that when the bolts are torqued, the mount is pressed flush with the water hole surface. This is normal I take it??? I've never torqued a part to the surface of any engine where this scenario is the case. I'm thinking this may cause problems down the road???

    See picture for reference. I have edited the pic in white where you can see where the front mount rests on those protruding portions of the head.

    Thanks in advance.

    Goatster
    Attached Files
    Last edited by James S.; October 20, 2008, 11:49 PM. Reason: edit
  • Bill M.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • March 31, 1977
    • 1386

    #2
    Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

    Originally posted by James Sanny (49162)
    While installing the front engine mount, I noticed that the passenger side portion sits flush to the water inlet hole, while the driver side rests partially on the head leaving a small gap about 1/64th of an inch. I could see from the original factory install, the back or the driver's side engine mount had a small crease from the head casting flashing when the mount is torqued. It appears to me that when the bolts are torqued, the mount is pressed flush with the water hole surface. This is normal I take it??? I've never torqued a part to the surface of any engine where this scenario is the case. I'm thinking this may cause problems down the road???

    See picture for reference. I have edited the pic in white where you can see where the front mount rests on those protruding portions of the head.

    Thanks in advance.

    Goatster
    I have two 519 blocks with 550 heads. They both have a gap between the water pump surface and the cylinder head surface on the driver's side, so the mount would pull tight to the block and clear the head.

    Comment

    • Joe M.
      Very Frequent User
      • January 31, 2005
      • 589

      #3
      Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

      I've seen this problem and posted it a couple of times within threads but no one ever responded. As I understand the tonowanda head synbols are not machined and the Flint heads are. This would set up a problem with the early vette motor mounts.

      I had noticed a few mounts cracked where it would interfere with the head symbol. The interference is so minute but apparently does cause a problem. It would be very easy to miss.

      Wonder if this is just on T heads or if it happens with Flint heads as well?

      Comment

      • Jack H.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • March 31, 1990
        • 9906

        #4
        Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

        You can also have a configuration issue with the water pump itself. Factory originals used a flat rear plate with low profile slotted head screws. Most pump rebuilders (those NOT doing factory concours work) like to use the later era rear plate on their pumps (the plate with 'lipped' edges) and hex head bolts to achieve better sealing characteristics.

        The lipped edge of the later style rear plate and the hex head bolts cause the pump to demand more backside clearance than the factory original. Couple that with pump rebuilder due diligence in milling the attaching legs of the pump to eliminate pit/rust and achive a nice flat/true surface for the pump's gasket to seat against and it's possible to eat up the design safety margin in pump to engine clearance...

        Comment

        • John H.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • November 30, 1997
          • 16513

          #5
          Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

          Jim -

          What's the date code on the cylinder heads (under the valve covers)? Those may be Tonawanda heads (two digits for the year portion of the date code). It's hard to tell from the photo, but the front of the casting symbol on Tonawanda heads (not used on Corvettes) wasn't machined; the front of the casting symbol on Flint heads WAS machined flat, perpendicular to the deck surface.

          Comment

          • Joseph T.
            Expired
            • April 30, 1976
            • 2074

            #6
            Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

            Originally posted by John Hinckley (29964)
            Jim -

            What's the date code on the cylinder heads (under the valve covers)? Those may be Tonawanda heads (two digits for the year portion of the date code). It's hard to tell from the photo, but the front of the casting symbol on Tonawanda heads (not used on Corvettes) wasn't machined; the front of the casting symbol on Flint heads WAS machined flat, perpendicular to the deck surface.
            John

            Do you think the Flint heads casting symbol was machined specifically to help clear the installation of the Corvette motor mount ( which would not have been necessary on passenger cars)?

            Joe

            Comment

            • James S.
              Expired
              • June 22, 2008
              • 226

              #7
              Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

              Originally posted by John Hinckley (29964)
              Jim -

              What's the date code on the cylinder heads (under the valve covers)? Those may be Tonawanda heads (two digits for the year portion of the date code). It's hard to tell from the photo, but the front of the casting symbol on Tonawanda heads (not used on Corvettes) wasn't machined; the front of the casting symbol on Flint heads WAS machined flat, perpendicular to the deck surface.
              Hi John,

              Thx for the response!

              Please see pics of the heads; first two are passenger side; next two are driver. Looks like one head is a 1963 cast code. Interesting. K309 is Nov 13, 1959 right? And L263 is Dec 12, 1963 right?

              According to Colvin's Corvette by the Numbers book, the 3795896 was used extensively in 2 BBl applications in 1964, and the Chevy II. Ugh!!! I should have checked prior to rebuild. Well, are the specs the same for both heads i.e., flow through characteristics, etc? I'll find another head if this is not the case.

              Thx in advance.

              JIm
              Attached Files
              Last edited by James S.; October 21, 2008, 12:18 PM. Reason: edit

              Comment

              • Joseph T.
                Expired
                • April 30, 1976
                • 2074

                #8
                Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

                Originally posted by James Sanny (49162)
                Hi John,

                Thx for the response!

                Please see pics of the heads; first two are passenger side; next two are driver. Looks like one head is a 1963 cast code. Interesting. K309 is Nov 13, 1959 right? And L263 is Dec 12, 1963 right?

                According to Colvin's Corvette by the Numbers book, the 3795896 was used extensively in 2 BBl applications in 1964, and the Chevy II. Ugh!!! I should have checked prior to rebuild. Well, are the specs the same for both heads i.e., flow through characteristics, etc? I'll find another head if this is not the case.

                Thx in advance.

                JIm
                Looks like Nov 30 1959 and Dec 26 1958..unless the letter I was not used. ( can't remember ) DEC 26th would be an interesting date.

                Comment

                • James S.
                  Expired
                  • June 22, 2008
                  • 226

                  #9
                  Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

                  Originally posted by Joseph Trybulec (930)
                  Looks like Nov 30 1959 and Dec 26 1958..unless the letter I was not used. ( can't remember ) DEC 26th would be an interesting date.
                  Yes, someone working over time because he didn't get a Vette for his Christmas present!!!

                  I'm gonna use a magnifier and seeif that's a "3" or "8."
                  Last edited by James S.; October 21, 2008, 12:27 PM. Reason: edit

                  Comment

                  • Tom D.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • September 30, 1981
                    • 2126

                    #10
                    Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!



                    The above location has a photo of the broached cyl head end. Click on the smaller photo located on the website mentioned below to get the same view.

                    There are some words there - Don't know how accurate they are.

                    TD
                    https://MichiganNCRS.org
                    Michigan Chapter
                    Tom Dingman

                    Comment

                    • Tom D.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • September 30, 1981
                      • 2126

                      #11
                      Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

                      ...by broached I mean the Flint head. See Hinckley's post above.
                      Thanks
                      td
                      https://MichiganNCRS.org
                      Michigan Chapter
                      Tom Dingman

                      Comment

                      • James S.
                        Expired
                        • June 22, 2008
                        • 226

                        #12
                        Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

                        Originally posted by Tom Dingman (4889)
                        http://midvette.homestead.com/Head_e...ge_reduced.JPG

                        The above location has a photo of the broached cyl head end. Click on the smaller photo located on the website mentioned below to get the same view.

                        There are some words there - Don't know how accurate they are.

                        TD
                        Tom,

                        You've got me confused. John says the Flint head is flat, your picture depicts a raised cast portion on the end of the head that you refer to as Flint head, and from what Johnsays, that is a Towanda plant head.

                        Goat

                        Comment

                        • Tom D.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • September 30, 1981
                          • 2126

                          #13
                          Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

                          I'm sorry - The raised "indicator" area of the head is still there, it's just been cut down some... on the Flint heads.

                          td
                          https://MichiganNCRS.org
                          Michigan Chapter
                          Tom Dingman

                          Comment

                          • Tom D.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • September 30, 1981
                            • 2126

                            #14
                            Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

                            It has a "cast" texture on the Tonawanda NY heads.

                            td
                            https://MichiganNCRS.org
                            Michigan Chapter
                            Tom Dingman

                            Comment

                            • James S.
                              Expired
                              • June 22, 2008
                              • 226

                              #15
                              Re: 1960: A good one for the Forum!

                              Originally posted by Tom Dingman (4889)
                              I'm sorry - The raised "indicator" area of the head is still there, it's just been cut down some... on the Flint heads.

                              td
                              Oh, okay. Well, I took a magniflying glass, and the date code appears to be a "3" and that conicides with the casting number. My question now is that I have a 59 and 63 head on this engine and I'm wondering if this engine will achieve balanced performance? Colvin's book shows that the bottom of the heads are very similar, but performance wise I'm just not sure.

                              Thx,

                              Goat
                              Last edited by James S.; October 21, 2008, 01:01 PM. Reason: edit

                              Comment

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