question from my first judging experience

[Bill C.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

hey --

here is my car -

It is a real documented Uniroyal car.
the 1st (and only owners before me) backed up this. the 72' spare was still in the tub with the ink lines going around the tire.

they do exist

[Lyndon S.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Bill
Are those the original tires that came on the car? Are is that like a NOS set that you acquired ?

[Bill C.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

The spare is the original Uniroyal,
the other four are 1972 dated NOS tires with 0 miles on them.
All the tires still have the red/green stripes on the treads, including thespare.

I had a long conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Feebles about the tires etc when I bought the car.
It is for real - he said that when he picked teh car up from the dealership Uniroyals were on the car.

[Dick W.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Guys,
Thanks for the replies so far. I've gone ahead with the repro PF-25 white filter from an online seller and it looks like I'll be able to capture some points there. I also read many posts on the battery and found a local source for the current AC Delco replacement battery and will go with that.

I also am due for plug wires, and a disti cap. I see Ecklers sells AC Delco replacements at pretty reasonable prices. Just wanted to check if anyone has used them and if they are indeed marked GM so I may recover points on those as well.

Ecklers also sells a repro GM alternator belt. As mine is NAPA I will go with this and hope for some points.

Am I on the right track? My plan is to drive my '70 to the Carolina regional and get it the top flight it deserves. With these and a few other details and a bunch of mileage points I think I'm in good shape. I just want to avoid the rookie mistakes.

Greg

Greg, make sure the cap has Delco "patent pending R" on it. The wires come from one source, Electric Limited. You tell them if you want 1st or 3rd quarter date of manufacture. They do not do 2nd or 4th wires. The belts come from Quanta.

[Lyndon S.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Well bill that is a neat looking car and set of tires. Now let me ask you this how hard was it to find a set of those tiger paws?

[Bill C.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Lyndon,

4 years of looking and lots of luck

Mostly it was someone remembering they saw a tire somewhere.
I got two from JT Piper and one from Greenhoe's.
The 4th came from California, a friend was out there getting parts for his car and saw the tire sitting in the back of a warehouse.

Basically - I was very lucky and the "big guy upstairs" was helping out some too

[Lyndon S.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Basically - I was very lucky and the "big guy upstairs" was helping out some too
__________________


Amen
I am sure those tires are as rare as hens teeth, lol. Do you know the reason why tiger paw tires were used in that time frame? And not earlier? Could they not get the Firestone Goodyear tires at that time because of a labor dispute? I am curious about those years and the tires .

[Jack H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

That's debatable... We have three rules in the Judging Reference Manual regarding correct/original parts (Standard Deduction Section). Then, individual Judging Guides offer 'Judging Guidance' on how to score this/that part.

In the JRM, Rule 6 addresses GM Service Replacement parts and allows a judges discretion of up to a 90% originality deduction.

Rule 7 speaks to Reproduction Parts and also allows a judge's discretion with 'typical' originality loss falling in the 0-50% range.

Last, Rule 10 speaks to Incorrect Replacement Parts but defines them as non-GM items which are 'incorrect' and mandates a 100% deduction.

Unfortunately, the JRM failes to provide a definition of the term 'incorrect' and specficially cites 'non-GM' items. MANY parts on a Corvette were NEVER made by GM...they were purchased parts manufactured by 3rd party suppliers. So, by the letter of the law, this rule does NOT apply to them...consider things like fan clutch, fasteners, certain relays, mirrors, Etc.

Now, ponder the fact that GM did a spin-off of many of its once captive producing divisions (AC, Delco, Packard, Etc.) and they are actively out-sourcing the manufacture of various parts they once made themselves! Is that AC oil filter you get today REALLY made by AC, or is it a Fram, Wix, Hastings that's been brand labeled for AC?

If I buy shocks from my Chevy dealer, I'll most likely receive parts in a Delco box but they don't have the factory original part number, they vary from the factory originals in configuration AND they're probably made by Monroe in a plant somewhere in Mexico!

Which rule applies? Are these GM Service replacements, reproduction parts or incorrect replacement parts. I can make an argument that they're ALL THREE!!!

Perhaps our judging rule distinction(s) between parts was clear at one time in the past, but it's fuzzy as all get out today and badly in need of update/clarification...

On judging guidance cited in the various JG books, it's often all over the map depending on specific NTL. Consider v-belts and Shark cars.

Lay down the various 1968-82 JG books and see how that topic is treated. You'll find it varies from no specific guidance on scoring to up to FULL DEDUCTIONS for belts that differ in how they're embossed/marked versus known GM factory originals EVEN if they are bona fide GM service replacement parts. Methinks we have too much variance + conflict in how we call things...

[Greg H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

My Judging Reference Manual arrived today. For my redlines, I would expect a 30% deduct, as they are correct repro OEM brand type and size, but differ considerably from original design for style (red line not offered in 1970). Would you all agree with my read of this situation?

My next question on this is: what if I can change the color on these redlines to white? Would I then be in the "differ slightly" deduction of 20%?

Greg

Any advice on this last question on the redline vs. whitewall? The stripe is the same width, so if I can manage to change the color to white I could have an easy improvement... what do you think?

Greg

[Lyndon S.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

I would think that it would be easer to get just get the correct set of tires than try and change the white wall color. And I would think a lot less time consuming and expensive .

[Greg H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Greg, make sure the cap has Delco "patent pending R" on it. The wires come from one source, Electric Limited. You tell them if you want 1st or 3rd quarter date of manufacture. They do not do 2nd or 4th wires. The belts come from Quanta.

Dick,
I made a mistake on the distributor cap. Should have read up on this first. Can anyone tell me the source for the properly marked distributor cap? My car already has a Delco cap without the proper markings, so now I have another one I can't use.
Thanks,
Greg

[Gerard Q.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Dick,
I made a mistake on the distributor cap. Should have read up on this first. Can anyone tell me the source for the properly marked distributor cap? My car already has a Delco cap without the proper markings, so now I have another one I can't use.
Thanks,
Greg

A couple of years ago I got a nicely restored one from John Pirkle http://www.johnpirkle.com/