question from my first judging experience

[Greg H.]

Hi all,
I recently had my 1970 car judged at the local chapter meet for the first time. I'm a first time corvette owner and want to keep my car close to original condition as well as enjoy regular driving.

One thing I learned, is that having AC Delco replacement parts are better than aftermarket. Examples where I was dinged were belts, plug wires, distributor cap, battery, etc.

For these disposable parts, what is the right strategy for replacement? I do not care to go to the extreme where I pay $40 for a repro oil filter just to chase the points, but would like to minimize point reductions while maintaining running condition with good quality parts. For example, I understand to get condition points for my battery I must have an AC delco product. Is this basically the answer for all the other normal wear and tear items?

Thanks,
Greg

[Patrick H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Hi all,
I recently had my 1970 car judged at the local chapter meet for the first time. I'm a first time corvette owner and want to keep my car close to original condition as well as enjoy regular driving.

One thing I learned, is that having AC Delco replacement parts are better than aftermarket. Examples where I was dinged were belts, plug wires, distributor cap, battery, etc.

For these disposable parts, what is the right strategy for replacement? I do not care to go to the extreme where I pay $40 for a repro oil filter just to chase the points, but would like to minimize point reductions while maintaining running condition with good quality parts. For example, I understand to get condition points for my battery I must have an AC delco product. Is this basically the answer for all the other normal wear and tear items?

Thanks,
Greg

Greg,

The quote often used is "points per dollar." In other words, where do you get the most points benefit per dollar spent?
$40 for an oil filter is OK, but originals are often $50. I'll take the original.
Batteries are expensive, but even Delcos aren't that "correct" anymore.
Dated repro plug wires are available, but generic Delcos look the same and are usually $30/set.
Distributor caps "rarely" wear out with as little as we use these, so I just leave the originals on my car all the time.

If you're only 30 points from getting to "the next level," whatever that level is, paying for a few parts is suddenly cheap when compared to the cost of attending most events.

Patrick

[Greg H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Let me ask another way...

The judging sheet for oil filter has 8 points for originality and 7 for condition. I suspect with my Fram (or whatever) filter I received zero points for both.

If I change my oil today and use a current model AC Delco filter, will that get me "some" points for originality and all 7 condition points?

I'm trying to be sure I understand how this works. I do not want to spend $40-50 for an oil filter, but would like to get better than zero on this if possible.

Thanks for any help...
Greg

[Terry M.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Let me ask another way...

The judging sheet for oil filter has 8 points for originality and 7 for condition. I suspect with my Fram (or whatever) filter I received zero points for both.

If I change my oil today and use a current model AC Delco filter, will that get me "some" points for originality and all 7 condition points?
Greg

Yes, with a Fram or Mobil1 or K&N or any filter other than an ACDelco you should have received a total deduct for both Originality & Condition points -- If less than 10% of the available originality points are awarded for any line item, no condition points are awarded for that item. Non-ACDelco parts, particularly any of the filters and the battery, could fall into that situation.

In the case of your oil filter, if you go to the parts store and get an ACDelco filter you should get some of those Originality points back -- probably enough to get over that 10% hump in order to get the Condition points. If the filter is relatively new you should get all the Condition points.

An additional problem is current ACDelco filters have some serious configuration issues relative to the original spin-on filters. This could result in additional deductions, but if I were judging your car I would give you 10% of the originality points for the current ACDelco even though it is only a modest representation of the original. Watch the on-line auction sources for the blue ACDelco PF25 filters. They can sometimes be had for a reasonable price, and then put it on for judging. In the end though they may not yeild any additional points on the originality side -- depends on the judge and their point of view.

You should know that Chevrolet is selling, through the performance parts catalog, a reproduction white PF25 filter. It is better than a fair facsimile of the original, although detectable as a reproduction. The good-guy price is close to $20, but it is hard to get these in quantities of less than a dozen. I don't have the part number here at work, but there was a thread about them on this board in the last six months or so. I think the list price might have been close to $40, so maybe that is what you were talking about anyway.

[Michael W.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

If I change my oil today and use a current model AC Delco filter, will that get me "some" points for originality and all 7 condition points?

If your new filter is a GM/AC Delco service replacement part , then yes you would get some 'originality points' for it. If you end up with at least 10% of your originality points, then you become eligible for 'condition' points.

[Joel F.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

You should know that Chevrolet is selling, through the performance parts catalog, a reproduction white PF25 filter. It is better than a fair facsimile of the original, although detectable as a reproduction. The good-guy price is close to $20, but it is hard to get these in quantities of less than a dozen. I don't have the part number here at work, but there was a thread about them on this board in the last six months or so. I think the list price might have been close to $40, so maybe that is what you were talking about anyway.

These are available individually for $19 plus shipping on Fleabay. That is about the best bang for your buck point wise that you might find.

[Greg H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Guys,
Thanks for the replies so far. I've gone ahead with the repro PF-25 white filter from an online seller and it looks like I'll be able to capture some points there. I also read many posts on the battery and found a local source for the current AC Delco replacement battery and will go with that.

I also am due for plug wires, and a disti cap. I see Ecklers sells AC Delco replacements at pretty reasonable prices. Just wanted to check if anyone has used them and if they are indeed marked GM so I may recover points on those as well.

Ecklers also sells a repro GM alternator belt. As mine is NAPA I will go with this and hope for some points.

Am I on the right track? My plan is to drive my '70 to the Carolina regional and get it the top flight it deserves. With these and a few other details and a bunch of mileage points I think I'm in good shape. I just want to avoid the rookie mistakes.

Greg

[Joel F.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Absolutely on the right track. Things like belts and hoses, etc. that are relatively cheap are the no-brainers. I'd defer any major items until after your car is judged again so you'll know what your scores are, and can evaluate costs vs. points gained. Depending on what your car is optioned with and how original it is, you may find there are some expensive items that aren't worth a lot of points.

Don't forget your battery cut off, fire extinguisher, and NCRS decal for 10 free points.

[Lyndon S.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

[James W.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Easy points - NCRS sticker, fire extinguisher and battery shut off switch. On tires I was going to pop for original Widetreads until I looked at the "points/dollar" factor. Just using radials of the same manufacturer, size and general configuration (no whitewalls, etc) would garner some points and prevent a total meltdown. If you're driving the car on a regular basis you might want to consider this.

I'm glad you took the plunge and had your car judged. The first time is the hardest, because you don't know what to expect. The real nail-biter is the PV, especially for older cars. Welcome to the NCRS!

[Greg H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

I would also like a better understanding of the tire points assessment as I may have taken a wrong turn. I got a deal on a set of used Firestone repro Sup-R-Belts, but they happened to be red-line rather than white wall. Redlines were not offered in 1970. I don't yet have a Judging guide but did order one. Would someone post the points break down from original tires to properly sized radials? (my plan is to keep an extra set of wheels for driving).

I already have the bonus points taken care - very easy points. I'm confident I'll reach my goal with enough buffer the second time around.

Now I'm starting to look at the PV manual and it sure looks like it will be fun. I actually think I'm in very good shape to start out and have only a few obvious failures that I know of. Of course there's plenty of time for me to break things between now and next season. Add to that over 1000 miles I plan to drive to/from my next meet and I'll be nervous when the time comes.

Greg

[Terry M.]

[Joel F.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Greg,

I don't have the Judging Reference Manual in front of me (btw, a great book, every person going through flight should have this in addition to their year's JG) but I think having redlines on a model year that did not offer them would result in a full deduct. You might be better off with the tires you removed.

Joel

[Harmon C.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Let me ask a question on the points per dollar. If the car in question had radial tires how many points would on lose with those on cars that were originally equipped with bias ply tires? Then the same tires in question were of a other brand than Goodyear and firestone, say they were a uniroyal in the 70-72 cars. Now did any cars come with tiger paw tires during that time frame? How much would one lose for a set of those tires? couldn’t the points that one would be lost made up with mileage points? Would those tires for that group of tires receive zero points?

The tire guide in the JRM has so much information for lots of years that tires were made I have a hard time putting radials in the charts on cars that came with bias ply tires. If a car came with GR-70 radials then the P-225-70 radials are also not GR-70's. I think that maybe the judging manuals for the newer cars should have their own chart on tires to keep the judges on the same page so an owner always gets the same deduction.

[Greg H.]

Re: question from my first judging experience

Greg,

I don't have the Judging Reference Manual in front of me (btw, a great book, every person going through flight should have this in addition to their year's JG) but I think having redlines on a model year that did not offer them would result in a full deduct. You might be better off with the tires you removed.

Joel

My Judging Reference Manual arrived today. For my redlines, I would expect a 30% deduct, as they are correct repro OEM brand type and size, but differ considerably from original design for style (red line not offered in 1970). Would you all agree with my read of this situation?

My next question on this is: what if I can change the color on these redlines to white? Would I then be in the "differ slightly" deduction of 20%?

Greg