Discrepencies in Judging Manual

[William M.]

My 73 454 is entered for Flight Judging this sunday at a regional meet. I've been going through the Judging Manual item by item and asking alot of questions on this board and appreciate everyone's input as I am a newbie when it comes to this stuff. I've discovered what I believe to be some errors in the manual. For example:

Thermostat Housing p.78: "LS4 housing number is 336773". Concensus on the board is it should be 3972128 (which I have on my car).

PCV Valve p.87: "Rochester equipped vehicles use a #CV736C in 1973". Most on the board seem to believe an LS4 should have either a CV746C or a CV769C (which I have on my car).

Jacking Instructions p.23: "In 1973 this has a part number of 3926218". Every 73 I surveyed at Carlisle this year had 330936, which the manual says is for 74 (which I have on my car).

How much weight does the Judging Manual carry? Is it considered the ultimate authority or can an experienced judge deviate from the manual in instances such as the above? Is it proper for the owner to bring such discrepancies to the judges attention?

[Oliver B.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

(As a rule of thumb: ) Unless your judge doesn't "know better" than what he reads as reference, the JM is the "bible"...

I had the same situation two weeks ago, when I had discussions around a few things in the 77 Manual.


btw.: all the best for your Judging!

[Harmon C.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

My 73 454 is entered for Flight Judging this sunday at a regional meet. I've been going through the Judging Manual item by item and asking alot of questions on this board and appreciate everyone's input as I am a newbie when it comes to this stuff. I've discovered what I believe to be some errors in the manual. For example:

Thermostat Housing p.78: "LS4 housing number is 336773". Concensus on the board is it should be 3972128 (which I have on my car).

PCV Valve p.87: "Rochester equipped vehicles use a #CV736C in 1973". Most on the board seem to believe an LS4 should have either a CV746C or a CV769C (which I have on my car).

Jacking Instructions p.23: "In 1973 this has a part number of 3926218". Every 73 I surveyed at Carlisle this year had 330936, which the manual says is for 74 (which I have on my car).

How much weight does the Judging Manual carry? Is it considered the ultimate authority or can an experienced judge deviate from the manual in instances such as the above? Is it proper for the owner to bring such discrepancies to the judges attention?

Where is the Regional meet this week end?

I would say the jacking instruction part number may be for early 73's. I have seen the jacking instructions with the picture of a 67 or 68 model year car and will check the number.

The 73-77 manuals are in their second printing and the number of cars judged is very low. The 68-72 cars have been judged much longer and have full classes at times. The 70-72 manual is in it's fourth printing which should make it have less errors.
With the help of people like you having your car judged and getting involved in making the manual better changes will happen but it takes lots of work and time.
An experienced judge can and will judge from personal knowledge if he is in agreement with his team leader.
If you have checked other cars and think the manual has a problem you should tell the judges when they go over the sheets. Saying it is correct because it's on your car won't do much good but a few pictures of those jacking instructions you found at Carlisle could help your case.

Good luck with your judging and a few points will usually not effect the ribbon you win. One item that don't work during the operations check will probably cost more points than all the errors in the manual.

[Jack C.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

William, I recently Top Flight'ed my 68 (lots of questionable items) and had similar concerns regarding items in the Judging Manual. Since I knew my goal was to obtain Top Flight, I used the TDB for about a year, bouncing questions and concerns off of knowledgeable members to answer and learn as much about those items in question. I came prepared with some email info and pages out of the AIM to hopefully clear any vague issues up. I only had to point out one item that I would have been dinged on and after all was said and done, the car achieved Top Flight recognition.

[Michael M.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

Ahhh....the age old question, "If you restore a car to the judging manual, is it actually right, or is is just restored to the manual"?

[Jack C.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

To the car. My 68 is very close to original state and I made sure that is would stay that way. That's why I was prepared with backup doc. These 68's are tricky.

[Paul O.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

To all you have to remember that the technical information manual and judging guide's are a living document and are in constant change and that all the information on a particular year is not always inside many senior judges that have seen 100's of cars have many times more info then in the books. Most judge"s at the end of their area when going over the deductions and explain to you when there is a deduction that is not covered in the guide why and how he and his partner came to that conclusion. The two judge's always discuss the deduct so that way if a particular judge has more product knowledge then the other there is a balance and affect to your score and if they cant agree that's when the team leader will come in and assist in the final decision. The final item is that if you have information that is different then what is known and have it with you most judging teams will look at the info and ether agree with this and make a change or not. Paul

[William M.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

Where is the Regional meet this week end?

Oops, I meant to say Chapter Meet. Metro-Long Island.
Told you I was a newbie.

[William M.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

I would say the jacking instruction part number may be for early 73's. I have seen the jacking instructions with the picture of a 67 or 68 model year car and will check the number.

So what would you say would be correct for a 73 with a build date of 4/3/73?

[Harmon C.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

I won't be able to check the jacking label before your judging but if it has a date on the label before your trim tag date it could be correct.

[William M.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

I won't be able to check the jacking label before your judging but if it has a date on the label before your trim tag date it could be correct.

8-9-72. That's what all the 73's I've seen say.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

The picture on the label you have is of what model year? I know the label I have seen does not have a 73 in the picture.

[Michael W.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

8-9-72. That's what all the 73's I've seen say.

My July 3rd coupe has the same label with the same date.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

I have a Nov. and a May 73 and both have jacking label 330936 dated 8-9-72. After looking at the labels today and the size they are I remember a 73 I had that had a smaller jacking label and a limited slip label both on the back of the jack door. With the 8-9-72 date the new jack label may have not been ready for early cars as the birthday book says 73 cars were built before 8-9-72.

[William M.]

Re: Discrepencies in Judging Manual

The picture on the label you have is of what model year? I know the label I have seen does not have a 73 in the picture.

It just shows a side profile of 3/4 of a C3 with rear chrome bumpers. It doesn't show the side gills or nose, so it could be 68-73. I'm satisfied at this point that I have the right label, regardless of what the judges say tomorrow.