How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

[Alan D.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

So here is the plan, have old original drums finished with the fine stones (once I find somebody) and do some sloooooow stops. Sounds like the longer I keep the service replacement shoes and drums on the more trouble I may have. Will check on the mileage put on car since they were replaced, bet its less than 2K.

Sorry John for the thread hi jacking.

[Duke W.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

Could this be what is called a rivet? It's not but one may think it was.

They certainly do look like rivets, which flies in the face of the specified "welded" method of attaching the friction material to the shoe, but they may actually be locating pins and possible points that a resistance weld was applied.

I've never seen a set of J-65 shoes worn to the point where the opposite side of these rivets - pins - whatever look like.

Typical riveted organic linings have holes all the way through the lining, so you can see both ends of the rivet.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

So here is the plan, have old original drums finished with the fine stones (once I find somebody) and do some sloooooow stops. Sounds like the longer I keep the service replacement shoes and drums on the more trouble I may have. Will check on the mileage put on car since they were replaced, bet its less than 2K.

Sorry John for the thread hi jacking.

So you are saying that you will turn the OE drums and finish to 20 microinches?

I don't think that's necessary. First, measure the drums at several clock positions to determine the nominal ID and any out of round. Evaluate the scoring. (Post some photos if you want my opinion.)

If the OE drums are in good condition, round, and the replacement linings only have 2K miles, I would just install the drums, then do a slow break-in. I don't think that's a high risk path.

When you do the work you will have to disconnect the parking brake cables. Check them to make sure they move freely and if not take any required corrective action. I think sticky parking brake cables are an issue that can cause excess wear of the rear brakes.

Duke

[Alan D.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

"but they may actually be locating pins and possible points that a resistance weld was applied." They are NOT rivets, but seem to be made of the same material as the pads, bet to locate before weld. Do you want me to grind down a pad?

[John G.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

For all the bad rap that drum brake cars have gotten for having 'lousy brakes' the J-65 option on the '63/'64 cars was a real boon. Absent owners who actually had experience with J-65 performance potential was likely suited to racing type applications. Even so, on a few occasions back in the day 'tracking' through hills and curves is when I came to appreciate how well J-65 can work. I did notice the brake pedal being a bit touchy with more brake use. I can only wonder what it must have been like to actually put J-65 through the paces on a real track hauling down from 140 to 80. Good to know the brakes were there each and every time. ..

Perhaps there aren't too many stock factory J-65 brake systems still intact and operable at this point in time but I figure to keep mine going until one of us croaks; likely me first. ..

[Duke W.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

"but they may actually be locating pins and possible points that a resistance weld was applied." They are NOT rivets, but seem to be made of the same material as the pads, bet to locate before weld. Do you want me to grind down a pad?

Nope! Don't sacrifice a shoe unless it is already definitely worn out. My originals still have plenty of material on them, and you never know when one might be needed.

If anyone has a J-65 shoe that is definitely unusable, maybe they can volunteer to do the analysis.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

For all the bad rap that drum brake cars have gotten for having 'lousy brakes' the J-65 option on the '63/'64 cars was a real boon. Absent owners who actually had experience with J-65 performance potential was likely suited to racing type applications. Even so, on a few occasions back in the day 'tracking' through hills and curves is when I came to appreciate how well J-65 can work. I did notice the brake pedal being a bit touchy with more brake use. I can only wonder what it must have been like to actually put J-65 through the paces on a real track hauling down from 140 to 80. Good to know the brakes were there each and every time. ..

Perhaps there aren't too many stock factory J-65 brake systems still intact and operable at this point in time but I figure to keep mine going until one of us croaks; likely me first. ..

Beyond knowing how to set up brakes, I think one of the reasons why I am a very good with brakes is that I honed my skills on a J-65 system. Given the highly variable friction coefficient and self-energizing effect, you learn good pedal modulation skills or end up in the weeds a lot.

I never did!

My scariest "J-65 moment" actually occurred in 1965 on Pacific Street in Seattle that routes along the north end of Lake Union. Eastbound, it has a totally evil downhill off-camber bend to the left that I always pushed as hard as I could, rain or shine, for the sake of the challenge. I was 19 at the time, on my way to UW classes in the morning, well over the speed limit, and, of course, it was raining!

Despite knowing this curve like the back of my hand (both dry and wet) I screwed up and braked too late. I knew I was going in to fast, then the right rear locked up, and I thought I was going to lose it, but I let up on the pedal just enough to unlock the brake, then all the way off and steered through the curve. Every hole was puckered, but I made it.

It was probably the Michelin X radials that saved my a.... Bias plys would have never held on.

If you can handle a J-65 system, a properly set up four-wheel disk system is a no-brainer!

Duke

[Rob M.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

Stuart,

Do you mean the holes as the lining displayed in this picture (taken of a '61 Vette)?

greetings,
Rob.

[Bob J.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

Stuart,

Do you mean the holes as the lining displayed in this picture (taken of a '61 Vette)?

greetings,
Rob.

Rob, those are actual rivets in your picture,a J65 will not have holes on the drum side of the linings.
Duke is correct that 63-64 linings are welded on. Each segment of the lining is bonded to a metal backing and the backing is welded to the shoe. If you examine a new J65 shoes the heat discolors the shoes where it is resistance welded on.
Going back to the lining, remember the actual friction material does NOT got down to the shoe, those shoes are worn out BEFORE the segment is totally worn away. This same method was used on Z06 shoes and it was very common for the friction segments to break off the backing if new shoes(especially fronts) were handled rough.
The pics show a new Z06 shoe with the friction linings broke off the backing thats still attached by the welds. The second pic shows a closeup of one segment that hopefully shows the two materials making up each segment.Bob

[James W.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

So here is the plan, have old original drums finished with the fine stones (once I find somebody) and do some sloooooow stops. Sounds like the longer I keep the service replacement shoes and drums on the more trouble I may have. Will check on the mileage put on car since they were replaced, bet its less than 2K.

Sorry John for the thread hi jacking.

Alan,

Here is the O.E.M. instructions right out of the GM box for refinishing used HD brake drums. Thought you and Duke might be interested.

Regards,

James West

[Stuart F.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

Well, some very interesting posts on this subject. I hope to get time later today to photograph one of my shoes and it's matching "floater" pad to post. Too many Doctor apts. these last few days.

Stu Fox

[Wayne M.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

......Each segment of the lining is bonded to a metal backing and the backing is welded to the shoe. If you examine a new J65 shoes the heat discolors the shoes where it is resistance welded on.
Going back to the lining, remember the actual friction material does NOT got down to the shoe, those shoes are worn out BEFORE the segment is totally worn away. This same method was used on Z06 shoes and it was very common for the friction segments to break off the backing if new shoes(especially fronts) were handled rough.
The pics show a new Z06 shoe with the friction linings broke off the backing thats still attached by the welds. The second pic shows a closeup of one segment that hopefully shows the two materials making up each segment.Bob

Bob -- Here's a drawing showing wear patterns and the 2-layers you show in your pic. From 1964 Chevrolet Shop Manual Supplement. Text mentions 2-layer design.

[Bob J.]

Re: How desirable/rare are metallic brakes on a '63?

Bob -- Here's a drawing showing wear patterns and the 2-layers you show in your pic. From 1964 Chevrolet Shop Manual Supplement. Text mentions 2-layer design.

Thanks Wayne, that explains it much better than my attempt.
You sure have a nice library of Chevy tech info ! Bob