Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

[Ron S.]

Is anybody aware of a solution to the problem of today's 10% ethanol gas attacking the fiberglass the N03 tanks are made from? I believe this is happening to mine. I have the same symptoms the boat owners are having with pre 1980 fiberglass fuel tanks. I am at a loss of what to do. Is there a process where the tank can somehow be re-lined so the ethanol would not attack it? It is very difficult to find conventional gas without ethanol where I live so that's not really a solution. I do not envy the idea of replacing the tank with the standard tank. All suggestions welcomed!

Thanks,
Ron

[Joel F.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Ron,

Aviation gasoline does not contain ethanol in it.

[Bob J.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

I've used 100LL AVGAS in my N03 tank without problems for the last 20 years. In FLA, boat marinas that sell gas will have non ethonal gas for boats but AVGAS is the way to go. Bob

[Wayne M.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Is anybody aware of a solution to the problem of today's 10% ethanol gas attacking the fiberglass the N03 tanks are made from? I believe this is happening to mine. I have the same symptoms the boat owners are having with pre 1980 fiberglass fuel tanks. I am at a loss of what to do. Is there a process where the tank can somehow be re-lined so the ethanol would not attack it? It is very difficult to find conventional gas without ethanol where I live so that's not really a solution. I do not envy the idea of replacing the tank with the standard tank. All suggestions welcomed!

Thanks,
Ron

Hi Ron -- what are some of the symptoms ? I would think that ethanol (or methanol) are quite chemically innocuous compared to some of the gasoline additives/boosters in today's marketplace.

Between you and Art Anderson (?) [rumour a couple of years ago that GM working on total recall of all C2 tankers due to liability of design (36.5 gallons in driver/passenger cabin)] you guys are freaking me out .

Remember that N03 tanks and associated fiberglass panels were fabricated (hand-laid) at Ashtabula OH, and the formulation MAY have been more strict than for C2 body panels in general.

I live in western Canada, where (I hope) there's no ethanol [yet or ever]. Nevertheless, I keep the gas gauge at or under 1/4 tank for local driving, which places the fuel level mostly low in the tool / jack pits zone, to either side of the driveshaft, so that if there's corrective repairs to be done, at least it will be localized. Touch wood so far (or more appropriately, fiberglass).

Sorry I can't offer more comfort, although I've heard of a sealant that you swish around metal tanks that cures to a sort of lining.

[Terry M.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Bill Hirsh and Eastwood sell the sloshing compound.

[Joe L.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Is anybody aware of a solution to the problem of today's 10% ethanol gas attacking the fiberglass the N03 tanks are made from? I believe this is happening to mine. I have the same symptoms the boat owners are having with pre 1980 fiberglass fuel tanks. I am at a loss of what to do. Is there a process where the tank can somehow be re-lined so the ethanol would not attack it? It is very difficult to find conventional gas without ethanol where I live so that's not really a solutioniI do not envy the idea of replacing the tank with the standard tank. All suggestions welcomed!

Thanks,
Ron

W


Ron------

Fiberglass resin is an ORGANIC material. Gasoline, including most of its components, ethanol, tetraethyl lead, MTBE, etc. are ORGANIC SOLVENTS. Over time, organic solvents will degrade and deteriorate organic material. Will ethanol more aggressively deteriorate organic material? I doubt it. However, it may very well more rapidly deteriorate organic material that's already aged, otherwise deteriorated, and has never previously been exposed to ethanol.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Where did this "10% ethanol gasoline" attacks fiberglass tanks story come from? Is there any real scientific evidence to back it up, or is is just another myth based on anecdotal "evidence" because some ancient tanks are deteriorating?

I doubt if GM ever envisioned that these 36.5 gallon fiberglass tanks would be around over 40 years later, and like Joe said, all organic materials are subject to attack/deterioration by various solvents - and other means like heat and UV light. Spill some acetone on any paint and the attack will be apparent before you take you next breath while some organic solvents may take years before deterioration is noticeable.

I remember talking to a guy who blamed ethanol for a ruptured fuel hose, and the damned hose was probably original to the car and nearly 30 years old.

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

The next time anything breaks on one of my old cars, I'm going to blame it on "global warming" and ask the UN for compensation.

[Bill M.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Wish i had your problem.......meaning a tanker.
Bill

[John D.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

I've used 100LL AVGAS in my N03 tank without problems for the last 20 years. In FLA, boat marinas that sell gas will have non ethonal gas for boats but AVGAS is the way to go. Bob

RJ. You have the right idea. Yesterday some one called me downgrading my use of aviation fuel in my 63-the LWC. I was very polite and said I appreciate the comments but I am going to ignore them. I have been using 100LL since about 1990 and will continue to use it as long as I can get it.
All you collectors that insist on lining up the fuel cars without starting them and then call when they break would do well to use 100LL from your local small airport. It will save you paying major bucks to have your fuel system cleaned out when it gums up. 100LL does not gum up. Never I am told. I don't really know how long as I have had some around for over 10 plus years in a small gas can and it shows no signs of smelling like varnish.
Those fuel cars absolutely love 100LL RJ. Course you know that my friend. But don't cut it too much with crap gas or it doesn't do much.

[Ron S.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Thanks to those who responded to my post. Sounds like Bob's suggestion to use 100LL AVGAS will be my first step. What does the "LL" stand for? For those of you using 100LL AVGAS, have you had problems with airports selling it to you due to either liability issues or for motor fuel tax reasons?

Wayne - the symptoms are hard starting due to the accelerator pump discharge valve sticking in the passageway (no fuel). I have been having these issues for last 3 years since I got car back together. I do not drive car very much and every time I tried to start I would have to pull the carb and clean out the passageways. I also noticed that there was a brown sticky substance all over the underside of the base plate and on the throttle valves. In addition, there are puddles of this goo on the bottom of the intake. I just figured it was varnish from not driving the car much. I was at a car show recently and spoke with some other guys who rarely drive their cars and none of them had this issue. Then I ran across an article about boat owners having this issue with pre-1980 fiberglass tanks on their boats. There is a ton of information on the net about this. It describes my symptoms exactly and that's why I think this may be my problem.

Duke - Acutally there is "scientific evidence" to back this up. I have an article where a lab did tests on samples from a tank (from a boat). I don't have it handy (I'm at work now) but if your interested in reading it I will get the link for you. I doubt GM ever envisioned our CARS would be around 40 years later! I'm not looking to blame anyone for my problem, I'm just trying to figure out how to solve it.

Ron

[Donald B.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

LL stands for Low Lead.

I have not had any problem with my local airport - Long Beach selling AV gas.

I go up to the pump with two - five gallon gas cans. Cars are not allowed on the tarmac

[Joel F.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Thanks to those who responded to my post. Sounds like Bob's suggestion to use 100LL AVGAS will be my first step. What does the "LL" stand for? For those of you using 100LL AVGAS, have you had problems with airports selling it to you due to either liability issues or for motor fuel tax reasons?

Ron,

The LL is for "Low Lead". Low by AVGAS standards, but not really low by motor fuel standards (in reality it is just slightly less TEL than motor fuels used to contain).

The guy at my local airport told me explicitly that he is prohibited by law from dispensing the fuel into anything other than an aircraft, and then went further to say that there is a self service pump that takes credit cards and as far as he was concerned, I could use that to do whatever I wish as long as he is not the one pumping the fuel. I took that as tacit approval and filled up 3 5-gallon jerry cans.

Joel

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

"LL" stand for "low lead" most small airports like to sell you fuel in containers,helps their bottom line. when we were racing and "racing gas" was not avaialble we use "AV gas" all the time. we had them fill 55 gallon drums. the local H/D motorcycle club buy 500 gallons at a time.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

Duke - Acutally there is "scientific evidence" to back this up. I have an article where a lab did tests on samples from a tank (from a boat). I don't have it handy (I'm at work now) but if your interested in reading it I will get the link for you. I doubt GM ever envisioned our CARS would be around 40 years later! I'm not looking to blame anyone for my problem, I'm just trying to figure out how to solve it.

Ron

Yes, I'd like to read the article. Please post the link at your convenience.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol and C2 36.5 gal Fuel Tanks

duke i ran to this problem when i was building engines for boats and was having carb problems as fiber glass was plugging up the fuel filters.. any octane booster is even worse