Bent windshield frame

[Dave F.]

Now that my body and frame are united and back from the shop, I am discovering all kinds of goodies and the first one is a bent windshield frame (the windshield is still out BTW). The driver's side is pushed forward at the top approximately 3/8". No idea how this happened and the shop isn't talking but I discovered it when pulling out the trim pieces and fitting them back on the car. The stainless T-Top to halo piece misses the frame by 3/8" on the driver's side but fits perfectly on the passenger side and along the back on both sides and down the spine. I know it fit before I took the car to the shop because I removed it. I still have to assemble the door "guts" and glass, so don't know how much adjustment the frame requires but do know some adjustment is needed.

So my question is how to bend it back? Anyone here with experience on this?

[Jim T.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

What kind of windshield frame work did the shop do?

[Dave F.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

That's the (not so) funny part, Jim. There was nothing wrong with it at all when it went to the shop (side note - my attorney has a 17 item list to pursue). The windshield frame is first of many things I have to correct. I'm likely to be asking more questions in the near future for other problems.

For the life of me, I can't really imagine how this happened. Like I implied in my first post, I removed all of the trim before taking the car to them, so I know everything fit as it should. Their task was to remove the body, replace the support channels under the door sills, repair minor wheel well lip damage on the right rear, prep/prime/paint and mount the body back on the chassis.

I can appreciate no one wanting to jump in on this with recommendations. This has to be tricky at best. It's just that my area had only one "good" frame and body shop, and what I got back from them is a nightmare.......and now I need some advice.

[Wayne P.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

The rear roll bar should be stronger than the windshield frame. My first thought is to attach a come-a-long between the two and try to spring the w-frame back into position. They probably picked the body up using the w-frame.

[Dave F.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

Thanks Wayne. I'd have to be creative in protecting the finish on the roll bar in that scenario. Would that also possibly create an angle somewhere along the angle of the upright part of the frame?

It does give me an idea to maybe use a flat bar, strapped to the WF, which would keep an even pressure along the plane of the WF while pulling back gently.....I probably need to install the door glass and check for proper angle/fit before doing anything anyway.

[Alan S.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

Hi Dave,
Sorry to read of your woes.
Can you see or feel any sort of kink in the A-Pillar or the windshield header on the drivers side of the center support bar? If not it makes me think the 'adjustment' needs to be made at the base of the A-pillar at the cowl. The term 'come-along' comes to my mind, too.
I'm not sure how much the door glass position will tell you because there's so much adjustment in tilt and lean in the glass mounting hardware in the door.
I think I'd try to do a bunch of measurements of the 2 sides to pin down where to pull or push, and how much.
Regards,
Alan

[Chuck S.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

...I probably need to install the door glass and check for proper angle/fit before doing anything anyway.

Before you resort to that, you may want to study the "checking dimensions" given for the body frame in the AIM. In my 70 AIM, the "checking dimensions" section starts with the index on UPC1, Sheet C1...the 69 AIM is probably similar.

I have never had to use those checking dimensions, and am thankful for that. Figuring out how to locate the reference grid, and using the reference dimensions is going to take a little time. At first glance, it all appears pretty intimidating, but those factory guys were mere mortals...albeit highly experienced mortals; maybe an ordinary gifted restorer can figure out how to use that information.

Section G-G, the diagonal cut through the corner of the windshield frame (UPC1, Sheet C9 in 70 AIM), may give you some feel for the amount of correction needed. It's not going to be exact, unfortunately, and will require a little "eye-balling". You can then use the door glass as confirmation.

Before I did anything, I would do a close inspection to try and locate the area of the body frame that deformed to cause the change. Once you locate that deformation, it should give you a clue as to what action will be most efficient, As Allan said, I suspect the deformation or buckling occurred at the cowl.

[Dave F.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

Hi Dave,
Sorry to read of your woes.
Can you see or feel any sort of kink in the A-Pillar or the windshield header on the drivers side of the center support bar? If not it makes me think the 'adjustment' needs to be made at the base of the A-pillar at the cowl. The term 'come-along' comes to my mind, too.
I'm not sure how much the door glass position will tell you because there's so much adjustment in tilt and lean in the glass mounting hardware in the door.
I think I'd try to do a bunch of measurements of the 2 sides to pin down where to pull or push, and how much.
Regards,
Alan

Thanks Alan for pointing out the variables involved when adjusting the door glass. I'm thinking that benchmark starts at the roll bar ("C" pillar) and once that appears to be "good" then I'd move to the "A" pillar and go from there. Yes - many measurements have been taken and more to come for sure. The glaring one is where the roof center support molding misses the w/s frame by over 1/4" on the driver's side.

Before you resort to that, you may want to study the "checking dimensions" given for the body frame in the AIM. In my 70 AIM, the "checking dimensions" section starts with the index on UPC1, Sheet C1...the 69 AIM is probably similar.

I have never had to use those checking dimensions, and am thankful for that. Figuring out how to locate the reference grid, and using the reference dimensions is going to take a little time. At first glance, it all appears pretty intimidating, but those factory guys were mere mortals...albeit highly experienced mortals; maybe an ordinary gifted restorer can figure out how to use that information.

Section G-G, the diagonal cut through the corner of the windshield frame (UPC1, Sheet C9 in 70 AIM), may give you some feel for the amount of correction needed. It's not going to be exact, unfortunately, and will require a little "eye-balling". You can then use the door glass as confirmation.

Before I did anything, I would do a close inspection to try and locate the area of the body frame that deformed to cause the change. Once you locate that deformation, it should give you a clue as to what action will be most efficient, As Allan said, I suspect the deformation or buckling occurred at the cowl.

Chuck,

Thanks much for focusing me back on my AIM. I found the '68 equivalent C1 UPC sheets to which you referred, and agree what is presented there appears a bit intimidating at first but after a few minutes I got comfortable with the approach given. After studying the components involved and how the fit-up/spot-welding falls out, then inspecting my car further I can see no obvious deformation in the "A" pillar itself nor in the upper or lower corners of the frame. Everything seems to be in plane and unmolested visually so now checking some dimensions seems to be the next step while I think more about how the get the molding to fit again.

[Terry M.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

Dave,
Just a thought here -- there is no chance anything happened to the trim piece while it was off? Falling or something setting on it?

Just another thought before dashing off to bend the windshield.

[Dave F.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

Dave,
Just a thought here -- there is no chance anything happened to the trim piece while it was off? Falling or something setting on it?

Just another thought before dashing off to bend the windshield.

Terry - fair question for sure but not much of a chance, and if it was bent or sprung you could see it. This is a stamped stainless steel piece (I believe) and rigidly contoured. After removing it from the car 5 years ago, I hung on the wall in the garage as a reminder I still owned a Corvette while the car was in the shop

I should be getting my camera charger back this week and I will post some photos so you can see the problem, the molding, and a measuring tape showing the different dimensions on each side as previously described. Also I can post my next problem with photos!

[Michael B.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

How does the side window fit?

[Dave F.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

How does the side window fit?

Don't know yet Michael - that's a task I won't get to for a couple of days at least. Life conflicts with play lately I'll post back when I get to some resolution with this.

[Chuck R.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

If the body dudes separated the door pillar from the channels, it's a good possibility that they didn't properly immobilize the door pillar and it may have moved during the re-attachment process.
If they didn't allow for the movement of the steel while re-welding the channel to the pillar, it could very easily have "cocked" the 1/4" to 3/8" you stated Dave. I'll bet this might be what happened.

If you go reefing on the windshield frame, your going to have to flex it at least a 1/2" past true so that when you release it, hopefully it would return to plum. That's over 7/8" minimum. I'm afraid your paint may suffer at the flex points.

I would hang the doors and get them closing nicley and then re-address the windshield frame so that you can visually gauge the straightening process by both the stainless trim and the door glass fit. I'd also include the alignment process with the Targa tops as well Dave.

Wanda was helping me burn some brush this weekend and at one point I ended up just staring over at my body setting next to the garage under the tarp. Wanda asked if it (the restoration process) was getting old? I told her that only I'm getting old and that time was relative when working on Vettes. It's been eight years and I'm just getting warmed up

I had to put my two pennies worth in.

Keep the faith Daver, you'll get it right........the right way.

Chuckster

[Dave F.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

If the body dudes separated the door pillar from the channels, it's a good possibility that they didn't properly immobilize the door pillar and it may have moved during the re-attachment process.
If they didn't allow for the movement of the steel while re-welding the channel to the pillar, it could very easily have "cocked" the 1/4" to 3/8" you stated Dave. I'll bet this might be what happened.

If you go reefing on the windshield frame, your going to have to flex it at least a 1/2" past true so that when you release it, hopefully it would return to plum. That's over 7/8" minimum. I'm afraid your paint may suffer at the flex points.

I would hang the doors and get them closing nicley and then re-address the windshield frame so that you can visually gauge the straightening process by both the stainless trim and the door glass fit. I'd also include the alignment process with the Targa tops as well Dave.

Wanda was helping me burn some brush this weekend and at one point I ended up just staring over at my body setting next to the garage under the tarp. Wanda asked if it (the restoration process) was getting old? I told her that only I'm getting old and that time was relative when working on Vettes. It's been eight years and I'm just getting warmed up

I had to put my two pennies worth in.

Keep the faith Daver, you'll get it right........the right way.

Chuckster

I'm thinking the same thing Chuck because nothing else shows any evidence of the cause. And I totally agree using the windows and top molding as a guide is the way to go also. One good thing is the doors are hung and are good to go (I do have to install the glass). It's that 7/8" movement that makes me nervous, not because of the paint (it's bad in a few spots anyway) but because of the two welds or the "A" pillar itself taking the pressure of the bend. If I brace the pillar with a flat bar, the main stress occurs at the bottom corner outer frame (UPC 1 A5), but the downward force is on the top of the hinge pillar and I don't see that giving unless a cut is made there. How to get movement in the direction needed is going to a problem. Either the "A" pillar has to bend, or the hinge pillar (UPC 1 A3) has to bend. Getting into the hinge pillar means some serious body surgery (but the doghouse may have to be re-mounted anyway - another post coming on this) and if I'm there it's basically re-doing the door sill reinforcement channel/hinge pillar weld. Now I'm officially in over my head

But you did cheer me up Chuck. I've only been at this since May 2003!

[Chuck R.]

Re: Bent windshield frame

Too bad that the legal eagles might have to be brought into this Dave. They'll be the only real winners when the dust settles.

Hey, I figure at the rate I'm going, three things are going to take place Daver,

1. I'll qualify for the prestigeous "Longest Restoration On Record" award.
2. Fuel should be around $20.. a gallon by the time I roll her out.
3. My now ten year old Grandson will be able to take me out for the maiden voyage with me riding shotgun cause I won't have enough leg strength to push the pedals

I keep recalling past responses from posters stating that most projects similar to ours end up dying on the vine because of either the lack of funds or the lack of time and energy.
I'm a glutton for punishment personally

Chuck (I share your pain) Rice #32205