Octane Increase - Which Alternative?? - NCRS Discussion Boards

Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

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  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15669

    #31
    Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

    If your engine doesn't detonate on pump premium, then there is no benefit from 100LL avgas unless you get if for free.

    How do you get free avgas? Any fuel removed from an aircraft cannot be put back in, so if you have an "in" with a flight service station you can get free avgas.

    I know a pilot whose vintage Corvette is the "disposal sump" for drained avgas.

    Duke
    Last edited by Duke W.; July 25, 2008, 02:33 PM.

    Comment

    • Stanley H.
      Expired
      • September 30, 1988
      • 44

      #32
      Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

      Originally posted by Edward Styczynski (10775)
      Joe,
      I have a 396 for 7 yrs. now and never have had a knock. I use the Sunoco Super Hi-Test and have never had a problem - I did try a lead additive a few times which added nothing to the way the car performed
      PS - I have a 3.70 rear.
      Agree..my 66 L72 totally rebilt in 1995 .060 over TRW 2300 F domed pistons / block had to be decked ... runs OK on 93 , 3.70 posi 4 speed. I run 10 initial w 36 total @ 2800 rpm ......... possibly a vac can with less total will help resolve knock , i did change vac can but dont recall (getting old ) what i finally went with ...bit think it had 4 deg less .

      I had bought & followed LARS (corvette forum ) advance kit with detailed instructions , he probably is om NCRS site also ...worked for me........Stan aka "StrayDog"
      Last edited by Stanley H.; July 25, 2008, 03:09 PM. Reason: clarification

      Comment

      • Greg G.
        Frequent User
        • September 30, 1994
        • 61

        #33
        Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

        I have a 396 with 11.5:1 cr. I mix 5 gallons of Turbo Blue per tank of high test. I have about 8000 miles since rebuilding the motor and it runs great.

        Initial timing is 11 BTDC with full advance of 32.

        I have also just recently change the vacuum advance can with the range of 4" to 8", to help with cooling. This did help but understand if I change from the stock location off the carb to the un-metered vacuum from the intake manifold I should get even better cooling

        Greg

        Comment

        • Duke W.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • January 1, 1993
          • 15669

          #34
          Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

          The OE carb should have full time vacuum advance, but you should check.

          Duke

          Comment

          • Larry M.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • January 1, 1992
            • 2689

            #35
            Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

            Originally posted by Bill Chamberlain (47576)
            Just a bit of trivia for you all ---

            MAX LEAD 2000 and LEAD SUPREME 130 are the same product.

            Kemco bottles the product and sells it as LEAD SUPREME 130, they also bottle the same solution for MAX LEAD distributor.

            I got to talking to an owner of Kemco and he gave me the skinny on the TEL product.


            =====

            To get the same level of lead content as in 100LL av-gas, you would need to blend around 2.5-3.0 ounces per gallon. But this will only get you around 98 octane; starting with 93 as a base.
            Bill:

            Lead Supreme 130 (now called Octane Supreme 130) and Max Lead 2000 are not the same product, although they contain many of the same ingredients.

            Octane Supreme 130 is tetraethyllead fluid (TEF) blended in a toluene carrier. Max Lead 2000 is TEF blended in Jet A carrier. Jet A is similar to kerosene. Using toluene versus Jet A helps to increase octane, as toluene has an octane rating of 114 (R+M)/2. Toluene is also a typical component of gasoline. The downside is that toluene is also a component in lacquer thinner, so it will remove lacquer paint if accidently spilled on the car.

            The difference in carriers is the reason that Octane Supreme 130 can boost octane more than Max Lead 2000.

            Tetraethyllead fluid (TEF) is a mixture of 62% (wt) tetraethyl lead, 18% ethylene dibromide, 18% ethylene dichloride, and 2% (red) dye and inerts. The dibromide and dichloride are added as lead scavengers to keep the lead combustion products from depositing inside the engine and causing damage. They are also the reason that the carbon steel exhaust systems corroded out so quickly during the 1950-1970's.

            Back in the 1960's, premium high octane gas contained around 3 to 4 grams of lead per gallon of gas (3-4 grams Pb/gal). This amount of tetraethyl lead can/would increase the octane rating by roughly 8-10 full octane numbers. Leaded racing gas like ROCKETT or CAM2 contain around 4 grams of lead per gallon. 100LL AVGAS contains a maximum of 2 grams of lead per gallon.

            Before KEMCO, Lead Supreme 130 was developed and marketed by Stone Oil Company in Georgia. There were some EPA issues, and ultimately KEMCO purchased the product line. They have kept it ever since.

            I still occasionally use Octane Supreme 130 in my 1967 327/350 HP car. However, I have found that with the factory (stock) ignition specs, I can run 93 octane (R+M)/2 unleaded pump gas without issue. I think most of our older cars can do the same. There is really no need for the additive unless you get into engine modifications. But it does work.

            Larry

            Comment

            • Bill C.
              Expired
              • July 15, 2007
              • 904

              #36
              Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

              Larry --

              Great info ---
              I must have misunderstood what the guy from Kemco told when we talked.

              I just recently asked him if he could blend me a couple cases of LS130 for me, but get the lead content up to 2 grams per gallon (like 100LL). he kindly said NOPE ----
              but he did say that 2.5-3.0 oz of LS130 the way it is would do the same, blended per each gallon of 93 pump gas.

              I just want - one last time - for my pipes/tips to get that white/yelow color on a long trip. I always thought that was so interesting when I was a kid.

              Our Sunoco station just put 114 and 97 octane pumps in - will start serving the stuff next week!!! CANT WAIT.

              Im going to do 10 gallaon of the 114 blend with balance of the cheap stuff, then go on a REALLY long trip --- bet I get my white/yellow pipes ...

              Comment

              • Stuart F.
                Expired
                • August 31, 1996
                • 4676

                #37
                Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

                Bill;

                I get a little bit of that "fog" now using the Podell product (whatever it's called). In fact, that's how I adjust the amount of additive I'm using; If I get the film on the bumpers, I back off just a little. TEL I believe was the reason the chrome on my bumpers got that weather checked appearance, and caused me to have them rechromed a number of years back when it was cheap to do so. I'd prefer not to have to do that again until I'm wearing angel wings and every thing is free.

                Stu Fox

                Comment

                • Kurt B.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • July 31, 1996
                  • 971

                  #38
                  Re: Octane Increase - Which Alternative??

                  I had the same problem with my 68 L79 with 11to1 compression and the tried many over the counter products including the Kemco product and nothing worked.
                  Everything on the engine is factory stock and rebuilt to factory specs.
                  One day I accidentally retarded the timing to 4 degrees and the car now runs perfect with no pinging or detonation.
                  Everyone kept telling me to increase the timing but it kept detonating so now it sits at 4 degrees and runs perfect.
                  I run the highest octane pump gas I can find and it has been fine for over a year now.
                  Kurt
                  Kurt

                  Comment

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