R-89W versus R-89S Battery

[Chuck S.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Paul you also have to remember that the parts makers if they make a part that is exact recreation of the original part the lawyers at GM will contact the company and inform them that the part is to close to the original and now want a cut of the action and the part must be classified as a GM restoration part. So with that said if the part is similar to the original and functions correctly they may not have to go through the process of being legal with GM... The cost of this for the company is very high so if they only sell a few thousand of them the additional cost would make the part even more costly for enthusiast to buy. I don’t know the exact figure but I have heard of $10,000 to start and a percentage of each part sold and it maybe higher then that. Paul 18046

I disagree...You can't use GM trademarks, parts numbers, Chevrolet or Corvette name on ANYTHING; not a jacket, a coffe mug, wristwatch or a wall clock, without their permission and presumably paying for licensing...that much is true.

But if you want to sell any amorphous mass you are representing as a reproduction part for a classic Corvette, you better pay at the General's window or expect to get a letter, call, visit from their lawyers. Just the mention of the part as being for a Corvette is enough to initiate scrutiny. I don't believe the accuracy of the part has ANYTHING to do with whether GM expects a "genuine restoration part" cut.

Why this issue does not confront PepBoys, AutoZone, or O'Reilley's for selling generic SBC, driveline, suspension, and HELP! replacement parts, I have no idea. There is probably a legal principle to be tested here that would ultimately end GM's "Genuine Restoration Parts" extortion, but it' would take REALLY deep pockets and decades to test it...it's not worthwhile even for the biggest vendors. Now, a vendor cooperative...Nah...They'd never be able to get along long enough to be successful.

[Paul C.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Thought I would revive this thread again because I still haven't purchased a battery and still researching the info.

BATTERY 7 CAPS:
a. 25 points originality
b. 15 points condition

I need the R 89S battery. Judging manual states " current reproduction batteries for the R89W are undetectable from original; however, R89S reproductions are molded from plastic while the originals were molded from rubber. The separators on the underside of the top of he reproduction R89S batteries telegraph their location through the top. Original batteries do not have depressions where the separators are molded on top. MAKE A DEDUCTION FOR THIS OBVIOUS CONFIGURATION DIFFERENCE.'

Check judgin manual for battery deductions.

Deduct 10%-battery appearing as described in judging manual but with no appropriate plant or date,
Deduct 30%--reproduction from the original design and construction in minor detail
Deduct 50%--delco, correctly sized, service replacement with appropriate top or side post cofiguration
Deduct 100%--originality & condition for others.

If I buy the R89S reproduction---am I correct in assuming I would lose 30% of the of the 25 pts for originality but receive 100% of the condition pts?

If I have a new Delco 2009 battery with side posts I would lose 50% of originality but receive 100% of the condition??

Several people told me to use a new Delco battery and just throw in the caps and hoses in the battery compartment and you would only lose a minimal number of points.

New some expert advice here from judges or 1970-1972 owners who have had their car judged.

Just trying to figure our the best way to lose the minimal number of points.

Thank you for taking time to read this long post---I know this is an area that may not have a simple answer.

Noticed the new battery restoration battery costs $260 + $50 for caps and hoses--and has a 4 year warranty.

Paul

[Dave S.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Thought I would revive this thread again because I still haven't purchased a battery and still researching the info.

BATTERY 7 CAPS:
a. 25 points originality
b. 15 points condition

I need the R 89S battery. Judging manual states " current reproduction batteries for the R89W are undetectable from original; however, R89S reproductions are molded from plastic while the originals were molded from rubber. The separators on the underside of the top of he reproduction R89S batteries telegraph their location through the top. Original batteries do not have depressions where the separators are molded on top. MAKE A DEDUCTION FOR THIS OBVIOUS CONFIGURATION DIFFERENCE.'

Check judgin manual for battery deductions.

Deduct 10%-battery appearing as described in judging manual but with no appropriate plant or date,
Deduct 30%--reproduction from the original design and construction in minor detail
Deduct 50%--delco, correctly sized, service replacement with appropriate top or side post cofiguration
Deduct 100%--originality & condition for others.

If I buy the R89S reproduction---am I correct in assuming I would lose 30% of the of the 25 pts for originality but receive 100% of the condition pts?

If I have a new Delco 2009 battery with side posts I would lose 50% of originality but receive 100% of the condition??

Several people told me to use a new Delco battery and just throw in the caps and hoses in the battery compartment and you would only lose a minimal number of points.

New some expert advice here from judges or 1970-1972 owners who have had their car judged.

Just trying to figure our the best way to lose the minimal number of points.

Thank you for taking time to read this long post---I know this is an area that may not have a simple answer.

Noticed the new battery restoration battery costs $260 + $50 for caps and hoses--and has a 4 year warranty.

Paul

Paul,
As a fellow 71 small block owner I just went through the same dilemma. I decided to spend the extra dollars to get the 7 to 12 judging points you will lose if you install a current delco replacement. (50% of 25 points but credit can be given for having the proper hoses and caps in the battery well so the deduct can be reduced).
Although our cars can use either the R89S or R89W(RPO T60 option) I chose the R89W. If you look at Restoration Battery's web page you will see the lines telegraphing through the top of the R89S as described in the TIM & JG thus a small deduct will most likely occur. The R89W is fairly well done and should get all judging points although some judges may see a need to give a small deduct for a minor detail. It is maintenance free so it should have a long life if properly maintained which was not the case with the former lead/acid repro batteries.
It comes down to your need for originality and your desire to pay for a few judging points. Either decision will work.

[Paul C.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Dave that was a great answer. I had thought about just getting the R89W because it is supposed to be correct like the original but wasn't sure whether I could get away with that since it was used in the BB in 1971 or those with the T60--heavy duty battery option. Didn't know if I had to prove my car had the T60 option. I don't know if I will need the points or not but would hate to miss top flight by 5 points and know that I could have had the points by buying a battery.

The originality thing becomes additive. When I bought the car I was only going to fix a few things; then I realized that the car was 95% original; and away I went. I enjoy working on the older cars--which I can't do on the new ones and it has now become a challenge which I enjoy. The question is what do I do when I'm done--buy another corvette?

Paul

[Dave S.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Dave that was a great answer. I had thought about just getting the R89W because it is supposed to be correct like the original but wasn't sure whether I could get away with that since it was used in the BB in 1971 or those with the T60--heavy duty battery option. Didn't know if I had to prove my car had the T60 option. I don't know if I will need the points or not but would hate to miss top flight by 5 points and know that I could have had the points by buying a battery.

The originality thing becomes additive. When I bought the car I was only going to fix a few things; then I realized that the car was 95% original; and away I went. I enjoy working on the older cars--which I can't do on the new ones and it has now become a challenge which I enjoy. The question is what do I do when I'm done--buy another corvette?

Paul

Paul,
The best medicine for that disease is to get another and another and so on until you are cured.
As long as a factory option was available for any Corvette you will not be required to show your particular car in fact had that option so the fact that the T60 option was available to any 71 Corvette is good enough.
The points chase is a large part of the fun but everyones limit is different.
Good Luck with your car and the judging challenge.

[Kenneth T.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Dave that was a great answer. I had thought about just getting the R89W because it is supposed to be correct like the original but wasn't sure whether I could get away with that since it was used in the BB in 1971 or those with the T60--heavy duty battery option. Didn't know if I had to prove my car had the T60 option. I don't know if I will need the points or not but would hate to miss top flight by 5 points and know that I could have had the points by buying a battery.

The originality thing becomes additive. When I bought the car I was only going to fix a few things; then I realized that the car was 95% original; and away I went. I enjoy working on the older cars--which I can't do on the new ones and it has now become a challenge which I enjoy. The question is what do I do when I'm done--buy another corvette?

Paul

Paul,
Thanks for reviving the thread. I have a 71 BB and wondered what to do with my original caps if I chose the new delco route over the restoration battery. Also, the addictive part rings loud too! I just repaired the key buzzer (annoying) in my steering column with help from an NCRS member who graciously sent me a needed spring clip.

So buy a lift, then by another Corvette and start stacking 'em.

Ken

[Paul C.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Where did you buy your R89W battery? Restoration battery says $260 & $50 for caps with hoses; Antique batteries does not give prices. Does either company have a better battery; more correct; and cheaper?

Thanks Paul

[Dave S.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Where did you buy your R89W battery? Restoration battery says $260 & $50 for caps with hoses; Antique batteries does not give prices. Does either company have a better battery; more correct; and cheaper?

Thanks Paul

Paul,
I believe Antique Battery is the manufacturer. Tom at Restoration Battery sells theirs. To the best of my knowledge there is only one manufacturer. I did not need the caps and hoses so mine was $260 plus $12 for date coding.

[Paul C.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Dave: How close to the build dates were the battery dates on average. How close to your build date did you date the battery--was that for your 1971? Paul

[Dave S.]

Re: R-89W versus R-89S Battery

Dave: How close to the build dates were the battery dates on average. How close to your build date did you date the battery--was that for your 1971? Paul

Paul,
Tom tells me that typically batteries were dated a month or less before the build date of the car. I let him pick the exact date.