Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

[John S.]

Is the "old" Dupont lacquer paint with all of the "old additives" still available outside of the US?

[Gordon A.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

I am told that nitrocellulose lacquer, as opposed to acrylic lacquer, is still available south of the border and completely illegal to import.

[Bart B.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

I don't know the answer to your question but Auto Paint Pro in NY says they have a lot of the old Dupont tints. Jr at Auto Paint Pro tried to match my 1970 Donnybrooke Green car with poor results. You might try these guys for a sample and you may have better luck. They claim to have matched these paints for others. Their phone number is 888 724-6844. I am still trying to get a good match for my 1970 car.

Good Luck

[Jack H.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

Methinks you need to do some further legal research on that subject (nitrocelluous lacquer 'illegal' to import). If I remember correctly, US Customs will allow you to repartiate anything you legally purchased while being abroad so long as you make proper declaration, pay appropriate duties on the mechandise and the item(s) are NOT on the contraband list....

Item(s) on the contraband list include Cuban cigars (but foreign nationals CAN bring them in), certain narcotics, Etc. Controlled substances (e.g. prescription drugs) are not necessarily 'contraband'. In many countries, they're sold over the counter at a chemist's shop (pharmacy) without our equivalent of the legal need for a doctor's prescription.

I just returned from Australia where they have a 'neat' OTC item; your choice of asprin, ibprofen, or Tylenol cut with a minor amount of codeine (takes the edge off pain) that isn't available here because codeine is a US controlled substance requiring a prescription.

I declared the items and had NO PROBLEM walking through customs. Bottom line, checking the letter of the law is quite helpful before assuming this/that...

But, the main problem you'll have with lacquer paint is it's flammable and therefore classified as a Haz Mat substance. Depending on the amount you carry, you may NOT be able to legally check it as luggage or carry it aboard an aircraft! The work around for such is to repatriate them via exclusive surface freight, properly identified and declared....

[Terry M.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

I believe nitrocellulose lacquer is still used in the furniture industry. Not much of that industry remains in this country, but some is still made in this country using nitrocellulose lacquer.

[Donald S.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

hi all i believe there needs to be changes in the way they judge paint.In canada by the end of this year for jan 1 2008 it is in law that even arcrylics will be banned for all color applications. according to what i have read water borne will be the only thing you can buy .. singal stage painting will be a thing of the past ,you will still be able to buy arcrylic and urathane clears .. as i understand there is even a stop manufacturing date to all the old arcrylics mandated by law .. europe has been using water base for years so the tecnoligy is there . even GM used water borne re flow tecnoligy in the 80s .the times are changing and before long we will have no choice but to use somthing other than arcrylic laquer to paint our cars ... just my thoughts .. Don .

[Dick W.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

Donald, I believe that if you will read the paint judging standards, you will see that there has been an effort to accomodate the newer paints.

[Jack H.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

One needs to closely read the text of various statutes. I hear FREQUENTLY reports that this/that form of lacquer is 'banned' or 'illegal' when there are usually MANY loopholes in the actual text of the legislation...

For example, wooden musical instruments are often painted with nitro-cellous lacquer due to its ability to expand/contract with the underlying surface it covers (pianos, guitars, Etc.).

Then, there's the problem of democracies having roughly 50% of their electorate being female. What politician is going to tell them they can no longer use the fingernail polish they've become accustomed to???

Last, it's generally NOT the paint itself that's the problem, it's the environmental emission silhouette associated with applying it that's the issue. I think many painters 'simplify' the story versus explaining the cost impact of purchasing correct NEMA rated paint booth containment equipment + appropriate waste water disposal services to shoot lacquer without an environmental impact!

It's hard to cost justify $500,000 in facilities expenditure to shoot these paints without atmospheric release for the small number of paint jobs done annually! So, my guess is, telling customers it's 'illegal' to use lacquer simplifies their dilema.

But, other nations who signed the same UN treaty we did, don't have the US Constitution on their backs... Our Bill of Rights mandates equal enforcement/protection of the law (to thwart the spectre of aristocracy--a priviledged class) and we're one of the FEW nations on earth with that monkey on our backs.

In Europe, many countries routijnely practice selective law enforcement and focus on LARGE polluters while the 'little guys' are free to do what they want! Then, there are nations that pride themselves in history/art preservation....

Who's going to tell the Pope he can't restore the Sistine Chapel using paints custom blended to 100% replicate those originally used? Some of these had downright LETHAL components in their blend like arsenic, lead, Etc.

Bottom line, this issue is generally MUCH more complex than simply reciting this/that paint in no longer legal to buy/use.

BTW, if one DOES go abroad and acquire original nitro celluous paint, you need to think about what you're going to cut it with! Thinners designed for acrylic lacquer won't necessarily be compatible with nitro based lacquer. So, instead of bringing 1-2 gallons of paint home, you need to be thinking of the extra 3-5 gallons of thinner you'll need to go with the raw paint!

[Terry M.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

You think the Pope's paint had lethal components? You know what is in the paint that is replacing lacquer (either type)?

Now that catalyzed paint is lethal. It will coat your lungs and suffocate you, or the contents absorbed through your skin will kill you. Don't even think of using that stuff without proper breathing apparatus and a full body suit for protection. And that is what the EPA wants us to use rather than lacquer because it has almost no VOCs. Typical Fed up government regultions.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

You think the Pope's paint had lethal components? You know what is in the paint that is replacing lacquer (either type)?

Now that catalyzed paint is lethal. It will coat your lungs and suffocate you, or the contents absorbed through your skin will kill you. Don't even think of using that stuff without proper breathing apparatus and a full body suit for protection. And that is what the EPA wants us to use rather than lacquer because it has almost no VOCs. Typical Fed up government regultions.

Perhaps the EPA doesn't care if the user is "hoisted on his own petard" if he doesn't follow good practice and use a fresh air breathing system? That negligence will be self-correcting in a few years.

Jack, there are legal paint booths and then there are legal paint booths. No doubt what's legal will depend on the state you live in. You can buy an "approved" paint booth for a few thousand that will evacuate the spray from the booth during operation, but does nothing more but strain the particulates out of the booth effluent. In fact, I'm not sure how much more could be done with the paint booth...even electrostatic scrubbers are only going to remove the solids. I suppose the sensible approach to reducing the VOC released to the atmosphere is to remove them from the sprayed materials, and that's what they've done.

[Dick W.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

In the for what it's worth department. Bill Hirsch is still selling nitrocellulose lacquer. I stand to be corrected but by 1957 GM was using acrylic lacquer which is still available from a few PPG jobbers. Colors using original formulas is another whole discussion

[Steven S.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

Acrylic lacquer is made from a blend of acrylic resin and nitro-cellous lacquer. The acrylic resin was added to improve durablility. The real difference is in the pigments used to tint it. Being red it is heavy metal pigments back in the day while to day leaded or heavy metal pigments are illegal in this country. Color match may be a challenge.

[Bill W.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

Steven , some of the new urathane paints still use leaded pigments. they are not illegal just very expensive. And color match is less of a challange now than is was 20 or 30 years ago. The paint we use today is way more dangerous than lacquer ever could have been....Bill

[Steven S.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

I believe if you check further you will find that leaded pjigments are not used in the US. A few years ago a customer of mine from Spain with a US facility in Pa. was setting up a coatings manufacturing plant. In the interm they brought product in from Spain that did have leaded pigements (they are still legal in Europe). He sold those coatings here and was fined by the EPA. Part of the problem in matching even urethanes is that the pigments are different and though a color computer is used today, it can not always give you a good match to the old pigments. I have 34 years experience in the coatings raw material field. Dupont, PPG and SW were customers of mine. Worked with them on developement of several OEM coatings including water borne and the auto body repair/ refinish coatings.

[Bill W.]

Re: Dupont Rally Red Lacquer Paint

Steven I have been a auto painter for 39 years and Dupont still uses some (not many) leaded tints . When we need a color with lead we have it mixed at our jobber , we dont use enough to stock it .