A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

[Norm C.]

I remember an A/C restoration vendor in Florida that was highly recommended here on the TD board. Can someone provide the name of that vendor.... OR... are there other members who have had good experience with other vendors for refurbishing the original A/C components? Thanks in advance for any and all help!!!

[John H.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Classic Auto Air in Tampa.

[Larry M.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

The companys that you seek are Classic Auto Air in Florida and Texas, and Old Air Products in Texas. Websites are http://www.classicautoair.com and http://www.oldairproducts.com

Larry

[Gary N.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

I used Classic Auto Air in Tampa to rebuild the original A-6 AC compressor for my 66' (saw an ad in Hemmings). It was throwing oil out of the front seal and losing R-12. They sent it back and I put it on and it still leaked oil out the front seal. I had to send it back to them again and they said they fixed it. I recharged it a second time and it still leaked. R-12 is not cheap!!!!! Right now I'm living with the oil leak and bought a shield for the front of the compressor. I guess I will either buy a new compressor or a rebuilt one the next time. I can not recommend Classis Auto Air. I might consider Old Air in Fort Worth, but I'm a little gun shy right now. It would be different if R-12 were available and only a few bucks a can as it once was.

[Chuck S.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

The A-6 compressor in my `65 is doing the same thing. I`m waiting to hear from a forum member who has found a vendor that knows how to replace this seal.
I`m like Gary, in that I don`t want to keep wasting R-12 in addition to paying for Classic Auto Air`s mistakes in not properly installing the seal.

[Larry M.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Chuck and Gary:

At one time both of these companys had very good reputations. However, lately, I have been hearing more complaints about rebuilt compressors and seals leaking oil and refrigerant. I am not sure what is happening??

What does Classic Auto Air say regarding the rework or warranty work? Do they acknowledge any liability or try to blame it on shipping, seal quality, home installation, etc.??

Over the last 35 years, I built and operated chemical production plants. We used lots of pumps and compressors. Some seals cost thousands of dollars and still leaked with use. One problem was lack of skilled maintenance labor, but others were seal construction, and pump/compressor shaft or shaft sleeve wear and fretting from use. My point is that even thousand dollar seals can leak, and shaft wear can cause/contribute to this. However, if the A-6 compressor shafts have wear areas, I would think that Classic Auto Air or Old Air Products would inform us and replace or rebuild the shaft, or say that the compressor cannot be economically repaired.

They are not the only game in town, but the remaining options are few. I do not know of any other companys doing this work. That means trying to find someone local, or doing it yourself. Because I like to do things myself, I purchased all of the compressor seal and bearing repair tools a few years ago so that I could do most of the simpler things at home. That price was around $200. However, if you add in gauges, vacuum pump, and leak detector this price goes up significantly. I guess it's all part of the fun of owning an air car.

The other thing to remember, is that "back in the day" these air systems typically required a 12 oz. can of R12 every spring due to some amount of system or seal leakage. We get used to the newer cars where this no longer occurs. I cannot remember having to add refrigerant to any of my normal driver cars over the last ten to fifteen years.

Let's see if anyone else has found a better solution to this problem.

Larry

[Jim T.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Larry where did you buy the tools to replace the front seal?

[Richard M.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

I found the seal repair tools here:

http://eaglebaycommons.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code=22-180

You also need this to remove the clutch. There's also one for installing the clutch but I don't see it. You may also find these at your local auto parts store on the K-D tools rack.

http://eaglebaycommons.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code=99-1233&Category_Code=MVP-acT

Note you need very long nose clip retainers to get the lock ring off. I made my own on a grinder from a cheap needlenose pliers I had.

This should help too:

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/7954_air_conditioning_compressor_rebuild/index.html

I'd replace the bearing at the same time. GM still stocks it I think.

I rebuilt the A6 in our 72 Jaguar XKE. Leaked R12 & oil. Found some GM nos ceramic seals online somewhere, can't recall. Some early A6's used metal seals. I bought the tools & seal and did it myself. Cost me about 100 bucks for everything. It's been blowing ice cold for over 1 1/2 years now. You will get a oil weep out of the seal, that's normal. Too much is likely due to a soaked wick in the housing. Get a new one or clean the old one in solvent. See this too for good info:

http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=20&threadid=8294

Rich

[Gary N.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Richard,
I read the information on the Auto AC Forum you attached and I remembered that the ceramic seal is lubricated from the compressor, so some oil is needed to keep it healthy. Mine seems to only spray some oil after the car sits a few days or more and if I wipe the spray away and keep driving it stops. If I would drive it every day I would probable not see any new oil, but since I only drive it on weekends or every few weeks I see the oil more often. As I said above I bought a shield to keep it from spraying up onto the hood and inner fender areas. It's hard to keep track of how much oil it leaks at that rate, so I worry about when and if I should add some more oil . Is the system sensitive to a little to much oil or would it just expell the oil out the seal if it's to full? I don't want to take a chance of ruining the system. I have several cans with two onces of oil in each that can be added. Any suggestions? I do lose a little freon each year and just have to top it off and it's good until next year. I remember seeing a Pontiac at a car show with a shield around the clutch area and the guy said it was factory, if so, it appears that GM was was aware of the problem by using the shield.

[Jack H.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

ALL of the early A6 compressors used sintered bronze front shaft seal/bearing components and that's the Achilles' Heel that results in the shaft leaking oil/refigerant with time/use. This subject has come up before (see Archives)....

The later A6 compressors, just before introduction of the R4, went to a ceramic bearing/seal that's bullet proof. These bearing/seal kits are widely available either in Delco Remy brand or third party (Four Seasons) and can be ordered from just about any auto parts store (don't expect them to be in stock/off-the-shelf unless you live in the South).

The instructions for how to R&R the compressor's seal/bearing are nicely recited in the Chassis Overhaul Manaul for the year of your car. You WILL need special tools including a pulley/clutch removal/installation tool and a bearing/seal too. Both are widely stocked at major auto parts stores like Pep Boys or can be ordered by any ma/pa store.

Tips: First, the ceramic seal kits don't provide much in the way of 'how to' information. Cleanliness is the key to making a sucessful install! Things like human finger prints (hand dirt/grease) can kill the bearing/seal....

That's why there's an 'extra' part in the ceramic seal kit that appears to have no useful purpose. It's there to hold/house the ceramic bearing while you move it from the kit onto and into the compressor!

Second, most commercially rebuilt A6 compressors come with the metal vs. ceramic bearing/seal. Why? The mfgr saved a whooping $2-3 in parts cost and only gives a 90-day to 12-month warranty which this setup WILL deliver...

Third, these re-man units typically come with a note packed in the box telling you to expect SOME weepage during the initial run-in period of the compressor. That's refigeration oil + minor refigerant coming through the bearing/seal interface until wear in is complete. The amount of oil that's thrown is MUCH greater for sintered metal bearing/seals than it is for the ceramic equivalent.

Forth, Delco Remy lined the front cavity of the compressor with an absorbant cloth to thwart this wear in oil from 'slinging' off the front shaft and messing up the engine compartment. NOBODY I know of, other than Delco, re-installs a fresh/new cloth liner when they rebuild an A6. Consider CAREFULLY removing your compressor's original cloth liner, cleaning and drying it and re-installing it after you've done the bearing/seal R&R job...

Last, once you've completed the bearing/seal R&R job, re-installed the compressor and recharged the system, FORCE yourself to run it in! Don't simply turn the A/C on, check/verify the cold air output and then go store the car... Take it out and get 2-4 hours of A/C run time on the compressor to complete the initial wear-in of the new bearing/seal!

[Larry M.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Jack:

Excellent information and recommendations. Thanks.

I believe the ceramic seal is AC Delco #15-2191 or GM #6599114. Cost around $20 -$25 depending on discount. Still available from GM and Delco sources. Includes a new felt pad.

Larry

[Larry M.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Larry where did you buy the tools to replace the front seal?

Jim:

I purchased from CLASSIC TOOL DESIGN in New Windsor, New York. (845) 562-8700 or http://www.ctd4ac.com. USA made. The items I purchased were #22-1269 kit and #99-1170 and #99-389 individual items.

Also available from MASTERCOOL at http://www.mastercool.com and from Kent-Moore/Robinair. I don't have a web address for them.

Larry

[Norm C.]

Thanks To All Who Replied & Helped... Super Appreicated!!!

Thanks for everyone's help!! This Tech Board continues to amaze me!!

[Gary N.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Any thoughts on my question above about adding oil to the compressor, since they all seem to sling some oil?
Thanks,
Gary

[Larry M.]

Re: A/C Rebuild Vendor in Florida ?

Gary:

According to the 1967 Chevrolet Service Manual, the oil capacity of a Corvette AC system is 11 oz. This is distributed as 6 oz in the compressor, 3 oz in the evaporator, 1 oz in the condenser, and 1 oz in the receiver/drier. I would assume that a 1966 Corvette AC system is similar/same.

My recommendation would be to add the 2 oz charge of R12 oil (mineral oil 525 SUS viscosity) after maybe four or five years of operation. Or if you feel 1-2 oz of oil has been lost. Or after the replacement of a component such as a new receiver/drier.

Two ounces of oil represents about twenty percent of system capacity. Even if only one ounce actually leaked out, the worst would be a slight (10%) overfill. I think the system can tolerate that.

Excess oil will not simply run out the compressor seal. It could cause compressor internal damage from liquid slugging, so you do not want to get carried away with adding too much oil.

Although the service manuals do not recommend adding oil through the POA valve connection, I have done this successfully many times. I have the engine running at 2000 RPM with the AC compressor on, and add the oil charge VERY SLOWLY to the system. In fact, I think the additional oil helps to free up a sticking POA valve. At least it did for me.

Larry