69 #1 body shim number location

[Greg L.]

Just a quick question...

Where should the shim number be...in front of, inside of, or behind the #1 frame bracket?

All the other shim numbers are ahead of thier respective frame mounts so logic would have these shims ahead of it's mount as well. I however don't recall ever seeing shim numbers ahead of the #1 mounts so I thought I had better ask the experts before I make a boo boo!

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Well, if you accept 70 data, mine were to the rear of, and adjacent to the frame bracket on both sides. Mine had four shims each side.

[Grant W.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Hi Greg
I have the slashes past the frame mounts on both sides. Not sure you can see it on my avatar. If you need a bigger picture let me know and I'll send you one. Later, grant

[Michael H.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Hi Greg
I have the slashes past the frame mounts on both sides. Not sure you can see it on my avatar. If you need a bigger picture let me know and I'll send you one. Later, grant

That brings up an interesting question. What year did the shim count on the frame change from vertical slashes to numbers?
I know it was when the frame guage station was moved from the beginning of the frame line to the end just before body install but I don't remember when that occured. The frame was upside down at the beginning so actual numbers would have been confusing and difficult to read at body drop because they would then be upside down.
Just curious.

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Michael, the arabic shim marks had to be made with the frame right side up, or the guy would needed to have stood on his head.

Some of the marks on my 70's frame are written almost horizontally, but I have two "4s" that are definitely right side up...attached pic is of the Number 4 Body Mount on the driver side.

John has described the marking process using a jig. I don't remember his description of the frame attitude during this process, but I assume it was done right side up, and later inverted for chassis assembly.

[Michael H.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Michael, the arabic shim marks had to be made with the frame right side up, or the guy would needed to have stood on his head.

In the 60's, one of the first thing that occured on the frame line was the measurement of the body mount pad height. The bare frame was set on a fixture, upside down, and a guage was used to indicate the required shim thickness/count for each mount location.
The frame remained inverted as it traveled down the conveyor while the entire front and rear suspension/drive was added.
At the end of that line, the frame was turned over and set on another conveyor, right side up.
All of the shim count marks were slashes, or vertical (nearly) marks that could be easily understood later when the shims were added because they were the same right side up or upside down.

At some point in early C3 production, engineering changed the process because it was learned that a "loaded chassis" flexed and a more accurate shim measurement could be obtained with the weight of the engine, transmission and rear drive installed. The frame was now flexed somewhat closer to what it would actually be for an assembled vehicle sitting on it's wheels.
The new method now included a fixture that was lowered onto each completed right side up chassis near the end of the chassis line. Because it was in that right side up position, the shim count could be added using numbers instead of slash marks.

Pic's below are of the later "right side up" procedure.

[Grant W.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Hey Greg
For some reason on my 68 frame I put the slashes on by bending down (like yoga stretching your back calves) and made the slash marks approximately 1 inch from the bottom of the frame and slashed upwards leaving a tail end faint mark( passing the top of the frame). So basically stand with your back side of your legs to the frame, Bend down so you see the frame and your blood will rush to your head, then make the appropriate marks.
The reason I remember this is I ended up with a head ache for a short period,
I did some research as to the markings but forgot where but I think this is also correct for the 69's. The frame was upside down on the assembly line. O for no shims and if more than 5 there would be 4 slashes and one across, But the angle for the single slash may vary if the person is left handed or right handed???
Thanks, Grant

[Greg L.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Very interesting indeed!

I was told or read someplace that the change over from slashes to numbers was sometime during the 69 model run so assume later in calendar year 68 to the end of 69. I read in Rick Bizzocco's book about a 69 with an early VIN around 6000 or so that had arabic numbers and since mine is 14xxx I went with that.

I'm still a little unsure though where I should put the shim number for the #1 body mount because Chuck's 70 with numbers says behind it and Grant's 68 with slashes says in front of it.

Ya gotta love these "change-over" periods!

Can anyone else comment on where this number should be?

[Greg L.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

That's funny Grant because that is just how I wrote my numbers. I didn't get headache but I did get a head rush when I stood up!

I'm probably going to stay with numbers. From what I have read 69 and probably more so in early 69 was a cross-over time for these markings. I even read that both numbers AND slashes could have been used during this time(not on the same frame) depending on who was doing it because the ole guy that had been using slashes for years just wanted to keep on using them even though he was supposed to start using numbers. He would use slashes for his shift but the next guy might use numbers for his shift.... Maybe things like this is why know one really knows when the change-over really was?

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

...I'm still a little unsure though where I should put the shim number for the #1 body mount because Chuck's 70 with numbers says behind it and Grant's 68 with slashes says in front of it...

Since my first post, I thumbed through Tripoli's book a little more thoroughly.

Tripoli also has a picture of an unrestored 69 chassis with shim marks, as well as the restored marking I referenced for the type of mark. In that picture of the chassis with arabic markings, the shim mark for the Number 1 mount is in FRONT of the bracket.

So, I suppose there WAS no set location for the marks so long as they were readable by the line workers...location was likely another "workman's choice". How about that, Greg?...an attribute you can't be wrong about; better enjoy the feeling.

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

In the 60's, one of the first thing that occured on the frame line was the measurement of the body mount pad height. The frame was set on a fixture, upside down, and a guage was used to indicate the required shim thickness/count for each mount location.
The frame remained inverted as it traveled down the conveyor while the entire front and rear suspension/drive was added.
At the end of that line, the frame was turned over and set on another conveyor, right side up.
All of the shim count marks were slashes, or vertical (nearly) marks that could be easily understood later when the shims were added because they were the same right side up or upside down.

At some point in early C3 production, engineering changed the process because it was learned that a "loaded chassis" flexed and a more accurate shim measurement could be obtained with the weight of the engine, transmission and rear drive installed. The frame was now flexed somewhat closer to what it would actually be for an assembled vehicle sitting on it's wheels.
The new method now included a fixture that was lowered onto each completed right side up chassis near the end of the chassis line. Because it was in that right side up position, the shim count could be added using numbers instead of slash marks.

Pic's below are of the later "right side up" procedure.

Michael, thanks for the explanation and the photos...you've provided us a very rare insight into the process.

[Michael H.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Michael, thanks for the explanation and the photos...you've provided us a very rare insight into the process.

Here's a pic of the tool that was used to determine the number of shims for each body mount location. If the tool slid in to the third step, for example, three shims would be required for that location. Very simple but effective.

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Here's a pic of the tool that was used to determine the number of shims for each body mount location. If the tool slid in to the third step, for example, three shims would be required for that location. Very simple but effective.

Totally awesome...I can almost see the station supervisor taking a sketch or work requisition down to the machine shop or tool room to get a "tool" made to his specs. Or...You don't suppose a signed-off, approved engineering drawing had to come down from on-high for an official "fast shim gauging tool" to be made, do you? HaHaHa...

All these big corporations are the same...there's the "official" way to get things done...and then there's the good old American "back door", no-nonsense way of getting things done...while it still matters.

Looks like all the "wear" is on the first three steps, with a little on Step 4.

[Mike M.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Michael,
I continue to be amazed and impressed that you had the forsight to capture all this stuff.
I see you upgraded your process with the C-3's...photos in color.
HaND
PS: You didn't by any chance pick up a few boxes of old mid-year shipping orders on the way out, did you?

[Alan S.]

Re: 69 #1 body shim number location

Michael,
Thanks for taking the time to post your pictures. They sure are interesting!!!!
Regards,
Alan