Parkerizing

[Stephen L.]

at this thread: https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ldest&uid=3961

Donald Brunswick provided this site http://www.calvan.com/index.html for parkerizing bolts.

Questions:

- have others used this product with success?
- am i correct that it is strictly for a phosphate finish (black or grey)?
- if yes, is the caswell type product that has come up often in my research of the archives the best "home remedy" for zinc and cadmium finishes?

Finally, from a gun, site, someone recommends baking in vaseline as a way to "cure" parkerized material (akin to rubbing oil on it, but more permanent) - any experience with this? - here is the url http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2...-vs-tales.html - thanks!! sl

[Patrick H.]

Re: Parkerizing

at this thread: https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ldest&uid=3961

Donald Brunswick provided this site http://www.calvan.com/index.html for parkerizing bolts.

Questions:

- have others used this product with success?
- am i correct that it is strictly for a phosphate finish (black or grey)?
- if yes, is the caswell type product that has come up often in my research of the archives the best "home remedy" for zinc and cadmium finishes?

Finally, from a gun, site, someone recommends baking in vaseline as a way to "cure" parkerized material (akin to rubbing oil on it, but more permanent - any experience with this? - here is the url http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2...-vs-tales.html - thanks!! sl

Steve,

I'm about to order that same kit. The "dark phosphate" look you're after is really manganese phosphate, or parkerizing. I have used a similar product (different brand, same idea) with excellent success. This is NOT a shiny zinc or cad finish - for that see Jerry Fucillo or Jeff Salz discuss the Caswell kits.

I just stick all my phosphated parts into a Ziplock bag and spray them with Pre-Lube 6. I can tell you that several years later they still look like new.

Patrick

[Stephen L.]

Re: Parkerizing

Patrick - thanks for sharing - is it correct that "manganese" is just for the black color? - or does that apply for grey as well? - and i think you are saying that prelube 6 is sufficient to "cure" the parkerized metal...right? - how long do you typically let the bolts sit in the oil?

Separately, the Calvan site says:

"Parkerizing is sometimes refered to as black oxide, however this is a misnomer as black oxide is nothing more than a type of black bluing which does not offer the protection and corrosion resistance of a parkerized part"

OK. So how do you do "black bluing" to get the black oxide finish that some fasteners require?

[Alan S.]

Re: Parkerizing

O.K. Stephen,
Now I'm talking to you on 2 threads.
See the other tread for my experience with Parkerizing.
I've been using supplies from my local gun shop to get a finish similar to black oxide on some bolts.
It's really fun figuring out how to these things yourself in your garage.
Regards,
Alan

PS: Only 1 rule here... nothing in the oven, nothing in the dishwasher. Some towels in the washing machine, some to the laundromat, her decision.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Parkerizing

Patrick - thanks for sharing - is it correct that "manganese" is just for the black color? - or does that apply for grey as well? - and i think you are saying that prelube 6 is sufficient to "cure" the parkerized metal...right? - how long do you typically let the bolts sit in the oil?

Separately, the Calvan site says:

"Parkerizing is sometimes refered to as black oxide, however this is a misnomer as black oxide is nothing more than a type of black bluing which does not offer the protection and corrosion resistance of a parkerized part"

OK. So how do you do "black bluing" to get the black oxide finish that some fasteners require?

Gun bluing works for black oxide, else you can ship off a small bunch of parts if you need to do so. Or, home kits are available.

I've never had a need to do more than Pre-Lube 6. Some of the bolts I did are on a chassis which has been done for 4, maybe 5 years. They still appear as new.

Manganese is black, zinc phosphate is light/med gray. Not a lot of car parts are in this shade; hood latches on the hood side come to mind.

Patrick

[Stephen L.]

Re: Parkerizing

thanks guys!

anyone ever tried this kit?

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm

[Gerard F.]

Re: Parkerizing

Steve,

If you are looking for black phosphate, try this thread:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...09329&uid=2352

Also, there is an article in the Winter 2006-07 Restorer on gray and black phosphate. The black in black phosphate is manganese phosphate, but you can replicate the black phosphate with a mixture of gray (zinc) phosphate plus the black oxide. The phosphate gives the speckles in the sunlight.

Have tried an older Caswell black oxide kit and thought it sucked. No speckles.

Just get yourself an old crockpot and Grant Wong's Zinc Phosphate plus OEM black

[Gerard F.]

Re: Parkerizing

Also Steve,

Take a look at this one:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...phate&uid=5797

[Patrick H.]

Re: Parkerizing

Steve,

If you are looking for black phosphate, try this thread:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...09329&uid=2352

Also, there is an article in the Winter 2006-07 Restorer on gray and black phosphate. The black in black phosphate is manganese phosphate, but you can replicate the black phosphate with a mixture of gray (zinc) phosphate plus the black oxide. The phosphate gives the speckles in the sunlight.

Have tried an older Caswell black oxide kit and thought it sucked. No speckles.

Just get yourself an old crockpot and Grant Wong's Zinc Phosphate plus OEM black

The reason I didn't purchase Grant's solution is that after using manganese phosphate solution myself and getting the correct finish, I could not see the reason to purchase zinc + "blackening solution" from him. I'm not saying that it doesn't appear correct, but when the right substance is available why try a "mixture?"

Just my opinion.

Patrick

[Stephen L.]

Re: Parkerizing

guys - many thanks! - jerry, this is great - you have also answered another question i had, which is can you use crock pots - the Calvan.com site recommends using SS pots to heat the solution...but it seems as if ceramic (that is what lines a crock pot, right?) works just fine - also, it sounds like zinc ph plus oem black gets you to the same place as black manganese ph...right? - have you also used just the black mang ph? - also, thanks for the links that gave tips on prep and techniques...very helpful - thanks also for the review of the caswell black oxide kit...given it is poor...what have you used for the black ox finish? - thanks again!! sl

[Jack H.]

Re: Parkerizing

Yes, have used Pakerizing kits with sucess. But, the finish does resemble black oxide instead of black phosphate (embedded sparkles) and I guess it should as the system was orignally used to replace traditional gun blue.

Attached are two pix of steering coupler bolts that were media blasted and run through my home Parkerizing system AND when extracted from the Parkerizing bath wiped down and shot with oil to 'seal' the surface finish....

[Gerard F.]

Re: Parkerizing

Stephen,

I think the crock pot route is the way to go. I keep a dedicated crock pot for my method of black phosphating with about a quart or two of the mixture of Grant Wong's zinc(gray) phosphate and his OEM Look-Quick Black. The stuff doesn't seem to wear out, I just add a little distilled water to the pot and just heat it up whenever I want to do a few bolts or parts occasionally. I've been using the same solution for a couple of years, maybe added a little chemical one or twice.

Parkerizing can mean either manganese phosphating or zinc phosphating. I'm sure manganese phosphate comes out a little blacker than the zinc phosphate, but I think I've replicated the black phosphate finish by doing it with the zinc phosphate and then blackening it at the same time with what I think is the black oxide. (None of these chemicals that you buy have the exact chemical concentrations on the bottle as I think they are proprietory)

I have not tried the manganese phosphate, but I understand that it won't take over zinc plating, and only takes over bare steel (correct me if I'm wrong Patrick). I found through experimentation with hardware store bolts that the zinc phosphate takes over zinc plating, if you etch the bolt in phosphoric acid (2 to 1 cut Jasco Metal Etch). It also takes over bare steel like a spade bit in my experiment.

As far as the blackening goes, I have tried the Eastwood Black Oxide, Caswell Zinc Blackener, as well as Grant's Quick Black. They all look the same and have the same process, (which I think is black oxide) but who know what else is in them. Grant's stuff seemed to work the best for me and is definitely more concentrated. Recommended dilution for them is:
Eastwood - 1 to 4, Caswell - 1 to 9, Quick Black -1 to 21 or 42.
(I guess if you're a cheapskate like me, you look at concentrations)

Here's two 73 hood latches, I did as an experiment in the crock pot, with the zinc phosphate + Quick black:



I know now that the spring retainer is incorrect, it should be zinc plated and I should have disassembled the latches. But to show how easy it is, I just dunked the whole thing in the crockpot fully assembled

[Tom R.]

Re: Parkerizing

Yes, have used Pakerizing kits with sucess. But, the finish does resemble black oxide instead of black phosphate (embedded sparkles) and I guess it should as the system was orignally used to replace traditional gun blue.

Attached are two pix of steering coupler bolts that were media blasted and run through my home Parkerizing system AND when extracted from the Parkerizing bath wiped down and shot with oil to 'seal' the surface finish....

Jack,

I did my seat bolts (look like yours above) using the kit but found addition of the clear added to much shine even tho its a satin finish.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Parkerizing

Yes, have used Pakerizing kits with sucess. But, the finish does resemble black oxide instead of black phosphate (embedded sparkles) and I guess it should as the system was orignally used to replace traditional gun blue.

Attached are two pix of steering coupler bolts that were media blasted and run through my home Parkerizing system AND when extracted from the Parkerizing bath wiped down and shot with oil to 'seal' the surface finish....

Guys - great stuff...thanks!

Jack - i am a rank ameteur so take this with a big grain of salt - but reading about this over the last few days, phophating actually "grows" a thin crystalline layer over the metal - that is what provides the "sparkles" - black oxide does not (although i don't know what its properties are or how it adheres ... seems more akin to paint (Chuck?)) - fwiw.

A tip to share:

Patrick suggested Pre Lube 6 for "curing" the bolts - curing appears necessary according to some of the gun sites to lock in the phosphating and making it truly corrosion resistant - some even describe a method of baking in vasoline at 350 degrees for half a day - i am going to try Pre Lube - in part because it seems like it would have a lot of uses, perhaps most importantly, lubricating wire rope on the 4 post lift.

Anyway, Purelube.com (makers of Pre Lube) sell it as either a 12 can case, 5 gal pail or 55 gal drum - the case is $80 and the pail is $90 - here is the kicker, the case contains 7 lbs of product and the pail contains 42 lbs - being another value seeker (Jerry, that is the polite way of calling yourself a cheapskate!! ), the 5 gal pail is a huge value over the case - but what about delivery through the aerosol can, you ask? - buy several of these at HFT http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1102 when they go on sale for $4, pump with shop air or a bike pump and make 72 cans instead of 12 for only $10 more!!

the above works with any liquid - so buy WD40, Kroil, or whatever in a gallon jug and then create a spray with the HFT can - I use them a lot. FWIW - thanks, sl

[Tom R.]

Re: Parkerizing

but what about delivery through the aerosol can, you ask? - buy several of these at HFT http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1102 when they go on sale for $4, pump with shop air or a bike pump and make 72 cans instead of 12 for only $10 more!!

Stephen gets the "best tip yet" award.