Prime new oil pan before painting?

[Louie M.]

I just got some Bill Hirsch Chevy Orange paint for my 67's new oil pan. For durability, not necessarily for judging, is it advisable to prime the pan before painting it?

[James W.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

Louie,

I would say yes to priming the oil pan, just be sure to use a good high heat primer. I've attached a picture of the 396 engine I recently painted with the Bill Hirsch Chevy Orange paint. It looks really good and there is a definite difference in color when compaired to the Martin Senior, Plasticote and VHT Chevy Orange paint.


Regards,

James West

[Chuck S.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

I just got some Bill Hirsch Chevy Orange paint for my 67's new oil pan. For durability, not necessarily for judging, is it advisable to prime the pan before painting it?

Is the pan a used oil pan already painted, a primed replacement part, or brand new pan of raw steel?

If the pan already has paint or primer, all you have to do is scuff it throroughly with 400 grit sandpaper, clean it with soap and water, then lacquer thinner and paint it.

If the pan is raw steel, it will be important to clean the surface thoroughly with lacquer thinner to remove any oil from the surface. If you remove oil from manufacturing processes, primer will be a moot point...break any shine on the raw metal by scuffing with sandpaper, wipe it down again with lacquer thinner and spray.

Primer is used to level bodywork and provide a smooth uniform surface for paint, and that is not really an issue with an oil pan. Unless you sand primer carefully, use of primer just introduces another point where you can have coating bond failure in my opinion. An exception to this statement would be epoxy primer, which is typically not sanded, and provides a strong cross-linking chemical bond with compatible finish paint. The engines were not primed at the factory.

[Joe L.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

I just got some Bill Hirsch Chevy Orange paint for my 67's new oil pan. For durability, not necessarily for judging, is it advisable to prime the pan before painting it?

Lou-----


I would not prime it. Clean it thoroughly prior to paint, but don't prime. Here's why:

1) Most engine paints are self-priming; they do not require a separate primer;

2) If you prime, then paint, you will, in most cases, end up with a finish that looks too "thick".

[Louie M.]

[Joe M.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

Just ordered some chevy orange Hirsch paint and read the instructions which say to prime steel parts like pans and valve covers but spray direct on cast iron.

[Louie M.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

When I read your post, I thought I'd once again been trapped by the "when all else fails, read the instructions" syndrome. But, I looked at the spray cans again and there are no instructions one way or the other regarding priming. How unusual that your cans of the same paint have instructions and mine don't. Do you have spray cans or larger cans? Not that it should make a difference. What a silly glitch in such a simple thing.

There is a phone number for Hirsch for reordering, so I'll call them Monday and ask for help. I'm inclined to not prime my new oil pan; guess I'll ask for advice at the nearest auto paint shop too.

Just ordered some chevy orange Hirsch paint and read the instructions which say to prime steel parts like pans and valve covers but spray direct on cast iron.

[Joe M.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

This past Monday.........

I went on-line to see what Hirsch had to offer and read the directions available on their website before I decided tyo make a purchase. I also wanted to know if I could go to their Newark location and purchase the product directly to eliminate shipping charges. I phoned them and spoke to a person who said the chevy orange spray can was in stock and I could stop by in person to make a purchase.

At $14 a spray can plus shipping you can bet I'll strip the paint of my oil pan and timing chain cover and use the recommended prime. If I didn't want to go through all that trouble I'd just clean all surfaces and spray some VHT chevy orange. Either method will work beautifully. Your choice.

[Joe C.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

When I read your post, I thought I'd once again been trapped by the "when all else fails, read the instructions" syndrome. But, I looked at the spray cans again and there are no instructions one way or the other regarding priming. How unusual that your cans of the same paint have instructions and mine don't. Do you have spray cans or larger cans? Not that it should make a difference. What a silly glitch in such a simple thing.

There is a phone number for Hirsch for reordering, so I'll call them Monday and ask for help. I'm inclined to not prime my new oil pan; guess I'll ask for advice at the nearest auto paint shop too.

Hi Louie,

All good advice. Just to add.............I like using Scotch Brite (or equivalent) to scuff........much easier to handle, and more even pressure distribution and "homo-genius" surface abrasion. I also like to apply the first coat as a "mist" coat. This allows better adhesion for the subsequent coats. Second coat should be heavier than the first, and third coat should be a "wet" coat, so that the paint flows (lays-down......but be careful for "runs").

BTW: How did you decide to build your engine?

Joe

[Joe L.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

When I read your post, I thought I'd once again been trapped by the "when all else fails, read the instructions" syndrome. But, I looked at the spray cans again and there are no instructions one way or the other regarding priming. How unusual that your cans of the same paint have instructions and mine don't. Do you have spray cans or larger cans? Not that it should make a difference. What a silly glitch in such a simple thing.

There is a phone number for Hirsch for reordering, so I'll call them Monday and ask for help. I'm inclined to not prime my new oil pan; guess I'll ask for advice at the nearest auto paint shop too.

Louie-----


I've used the Bill Hirsch paint before. Believe me, it does not require priming any more than any other engine paint. I've also tried using primer as a first coat on "tin" engine parts (as well as other chassis pieces, too). Every time I did it this way, I ended up with a "too thick" appearing paint; it just didn't look "factory". Of course, if one wants it to look better than factory, then priming is ok.

One other thing: to be honest, I do not recommend the Bill Hirsch paint. On the plus side, it is a VERY high quality paint, maybe one of the best out there. Also, it has a nearly PERFECT degree of gloss; I've never found another Chevy engine orange that was closer IN GLOSS LEVEL to the original paint than Bill Hirsch. In my opinion, it's absolutely PERFECT.

So, having said all this, what's wrong with it? Well, the color is "off" in my opinion; it's just not the same as original Chevy orange used for any year I know of between 1957 and E1977. Chevy orange did vary over the years, but never like the Bill Hirsch version. I called them once-upon-a-time about this and they claimed it's mixed to the exact, original formula. Whether it is or whether it isn't, the "proof is in the pudding"; all that matters is how it looks.

There's also something very strange about it compared to the PLETHORA of other Chevy orange paints I've evaluated. Most of these have either too much orange in them (like the GM distributed paint) or too much red. However, the Hirsch paint appears to have too much PINK in it. It's a strange sort of color I've NEVER seen an original Chevy engine with this "hue".

[Chuck S.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

...I'm inclined to not prime my new oil pan; guess I'll ask for advice at the nearest auto paint shop too.

Well...The result of that is predictable: Any auto paint shop will tell you to prime first; any paint manufacturer will tell you to prime first.

Reason: that's the way auto body shops ALWAYS do things...but think about it: how many restoration engines do body shops paint? For the manufacturer, its a CYA statement "for all reasons", and a device to sell another product.

Priming is not required...if you feel you have to use a primer, use compatible epoxy primer and topcoat it within 24 hours. Don't use a "sanding primer" or that gray **** down at the home or auto store. How the heck do you expect to sand that primer for good adhesion down in that cast iron "grain".

Another point about painting engines...minimize the number of coats applied...every coat fills the cast iron grain giving the engine a non-original appearance. GM used one hastily applied coat on a unprimed, raw steel and cast iron engines, and some of that paint is still on there 40 years later; the more you vary from their formula, the less original the engine appears. I would apply a MAXIMUM of two coats, and one of them doesn't need to be primer.

[Michael H.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

Lou-----


I would not prime it. Clean it thoroughly prior to paint, but don't prime. Here's why:

1) Most engine paints are self-priming; they do not require a separate primer;

2) If you prime, then paint, you will, in most cases, end up with a finish that looks too "thick".

I agree, completely. I know of several engines that were restored three decades ago using engine orange without primer and they still look excellent today. Never a problem if the surface is cleaned properly prior to painting.
I never liked the "too thick" look either.

[James W.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

Quote: "So, having said all this, what's wrong with it? Well, the color is "off" in my opinion; it's just not the same as original Chevy orange used for any year I know of between 1957 and E1977."

Joe Lucia


So Joe Lucia, what you are saying is that the picture attached of the engine painted with the Bill Hirsch paint is the wrong shade of Chevy orange? The second picture is from a Bloomington Gold Survivor '65 -396 courtesy of Keith Burmeister.

I was told on this board that that this paint is the correct stuff to use when having a car flight judged.

James West

[Joe L.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

Quote: "So, having said all this, what's wrong with it? Well, the color is "off" in my opinion; it's just not the same as original Chevy orange used for any year I know of between 1957 and E1977."

Joe Lucia


So Joe Lucia, what you are saying is that the picture attached of the engine painted with the Bill Hirsch paint is the wrong shade of Chevy orange? The second picture is from a Bloomington Gold Survivor '65 -396 courtesy of Keith Burmeister.

I was told on this board that that this paint is the correct stuff to use when having a car flight judged.

James West

James-----


From the photo, it appears that Hirsch has somewhat improved the color match to original. Still, I don't consider they've got it exactly right.

For one thing, the colors as shown in your 2 photos are not the same. Yes, I agree that the original engine has been subjected to years of heat and that's undoubtedly changed the color. However, I don't think that the ORIGINAL, as fresh from Tonawanda, color was exactly like the Hirsch paint.

However, I would not sweat it too much. There are MANY opinions as to what the original color was; mine's no better than anyone else's. As far as I know, for judging, as long as it's within the realm of possibility, you won't be dinged. Yours is, without a doubt, within the realm of original shades.

[Rick A.]

Re: Prime new oil pan before painting?

Mkichael,

quick question on an orgie oil pan - as DR ChuckG has posted - when we bead blasted the pan from my July 1963 built Z06, there was a 'blue/turqouise" primer-like coating underneath the Chebbie Orange - this is an oringal 6-quart 327/360 hp oil pan that has obvious brazing where #3 rod blew through the pan - what do the annointed think???????