69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Chuck,

1. I think that is a shadow on the lip of the wheelwell.
2. That exhaust is not original to the car. It has been replaced, even with only 6000 miles.

See mine below. Just as inaccurate, so to speak, as I did it myself...

Patrick, what I'm looking at isn't a shadow.

Look at the very bottom of the wheel opening where the flange gradually tapers to nothing, and there is a flat, horizontal area in the inner fender area. That area, and the lower end of the fender flange, has been blacked out because the black out has "worn off" so that you see body color showing through. The break line on the blackout is almost vertical on the fender flange; it looks as if they were trying to hide the bottom of the fender where it turns under at the rear of the wheel opening.

I'm embarrassed to ask, but is this an owner "improvement" on a 6000 mile car?...or, is this factory?

[Robert C.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Chuck,

1. I think that is a shadow on the lip of the wheelwell.
2. That exhaust is not original to the car. It has been replaced, even with only 6000 miles.

See mine below. Just as inaccurate, so to speak, as I did it myself.

Patrick

I agree with you patric, that muffler is new!

[Patrick H.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

I agree with you patric, that muffler is new!

I know it is.

I know the car, and I know that the current owner is working on installing a factory exhaust system.

Patrick

[Patrick H.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Patrick, what I'm looking at isn't a shadow.

Look at the very bottom of the wheel opening where the flange gradually tapers to nothing, and there is a flat, horizontal area in the inner fender area. That area, and the lower end of the fender flange, has been blacked out because the black out has "worn off" so that you see body color showing through. The break line on the blackout is almost vertical on the fender flange; it looks as if they were trying to hide the bottom of the fender where it turns under at the rear of the wheel opening.

I'm embarrassed to ask, but is this an owner "improvement" on a 6000 mile car?...or, is this factory?

It's a shadow.
Look how the edge of the shadow continues inside the inner wheel well.
On a very sunny day, with the camera trying to compensate, this is what you get. The body color you see looks "blackened" by the shadow. Time for new glasses, Chuck. Or, a bigger computer monitor.

Patrick

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

It's a shadow...Time for new glasses, Chuck. Or, a bigger computer monitor. ...

Smarta$$ whippersnapper!

Actually, Patrick, it's past time for new glasses...it's time for "new eyes", but like genuine GM parts for old Corvettes, there are hardly any out there for sale, and then you would have to sell all your other organs to buy them. Already maxed out on "monitor" size; to see really well, I would have to acquire one of those 52" LCD TVs and press it into "monitor" service. HaHaHa...

I think we're talking about different "shadows"...too bad I don't have the skills to repost the picture with an ARROW drawn on it.

The inner fender is blacked out...I don't think we have a disagreement there. Can we also agree that the "blackout" on this 37 year old car is not "black" anymore?...it's actually more of a dirty "brownout". That dark area on the bottom of the fender flange is the SAME COLOR (dirty brown) as the inner fender area. (I understand about camera compensation, but see below.)

The inner fender area is also showing body color through where the blackout (brownout) has worn off, and has sand grains on top of that...it is definitely NOT shadow.

The area that I see as "shadow" is actually "blacker" than the "brownout"...it starts just an inch or less above what I'm calling a blackout break line, and angles back into the inner fender well above the bottom of the fender. It is also revealing the light source (sun) causing the shadow as being almost directly behind the photographer...not too high (early mid morning) and slightly to his left.

[Lyndon S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

I don’t believe that is a shadow, that is paint. Now who put it on the car is the question
I inverted the colors to get a better look at the photo and it sill looks like a paint line and not a shadow.

Thank you for that, Lyndon.

Maybe there's something to that old saying about "age and treachery" overcoming "youthful enthusiasm"...particularly when we "gang up" on them. ROFL HaHaHa...

Edit: Oops, I just checked your profile, and you're only 5 years older than Patrick. Joke's on me, but I'm still happy for the assistance.

[Dave S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Guys,
I'm fortunate enough to own that car and I will look closely to see if Chuck is right about the presence of blackout at the lower fender lip. I can assure you that the muffler in the above photo is an aftermarket system and was blacked out by the restorer. Nothing to be learned from that work.

[Joe L.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

I agree with you patric, that muffler is new!

Bob-----


They better be new! That's because the pipes are NOT original GM. So, if the mufflers are original, then it means that someone attached original mufflers to non-original, non-GM pipes. That's VERY unlikely, to say the least. For one thing, one likely wouldn't find enough original material on the rear of an originally installed left side muffler to weld to.

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Terry McManmon is preparing to leave for Michigan and asked me to post these pictures which are apparently shots of the exhaust system on his original owner 70 LT1. These photos are apparently not of the original exhaust system, which is in his garage attic. He didn't explain the origin of his current exhaust system which is shown in the photos...or...maybe I'm totally confused.

Anyway, the text of Terry's email as follows:

"It is too close to leaving for Michigan (touring the Wixam plant tomorrow), and too dark to get in the attic of the garage for the original pipes. Here is a shot of the next best thing. I don't think there are any runs on these though. I believe the originals do have runs -- but it has been years since I saw them.

The 4546 (bottom, shot from the rear) is a good shot of the over spray on the tire tub. Ignore the fuel drips on the right hand side (apparently the dark spot with obvious runs and residue on the fender edge)."

The top shot is through the left rear wheel opening...the tire is out of focus on the left.

The one observation I make is that coverage on the side and top of the muffler is much more complete than shown on Dave Stricklands or Patrick's car...In fact, I can't see how that muffler was blacked out with the body on the chassis.

DSCN4537.jpg

DSCN4546.jpg

[Terry M.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Thanks Chuck. You have it right. Those are an original set of exhaust pipes and mufflers, just not original to my car. They are on my car, and have been on it for some time. I don't know what car they came off of. Those are the best shots I could get given the location of the car and the short time available to me.

I will get to the original system, and get some pictures, when I return from Michigan. I might even learn to post pictures then too.
Thanks again Chuck. I appreciate your help.
Now I am off to chase Art around.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Smarta$$ whippersnapper!

Actually, Patrick, it's past time for new glasses...it's time for "new eyes", but like genuine GM parts for old Corvettes, there are hardly any out there for sale, and then you would have to sell all your other organs to buy them. Already maxed out on "monitor" size; to see really well, I would have to acquire one of those 52" LCD TVs and press it into "monitor" service. HaHaHa...

I think we're talking about different "shadows"...too bad I don't have the skills to repost the picture with an ARROW drawn on it.

The inner fender is blacked out...I don't think we have a disagreement there. Can we also agree that the "blackout" on this 37 year old car is not "black" anymore?...it's actually more of a dirty "brownout". That dark area on the bottom of the fender flange is the SAME COLOR (dirty brown) as the inner fender area. (I understand about camera compensation, but see below.)

The inner fender area is also showing body color through where the blackout (brownout) has worn off, and has sand grains on top of that...it is definitely NOT shadow.

The area that I see as "shadow" is actually "blacker" than the "brownout"...it starts just an inch or less above what I'm calling a blackout break line, and angles back into the inner fender well above the bottom of the fender. It is also revealing the light source (sun) causing the shadow as being almost directly behind the photographer...not too high (early mid morning) and slightly to his left.

Chuck,

See attached.
I've asked the owner to check the car, and sent him a copy.

I still say shadow.

Patrick

[Chuck S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

I still say shadow...

Yep...Good job; you've put the red arrow right on the blackout break line.

There is a "shadow" just above your arrow angling back into the wheel well at about 30 degrees that places the entire back wall of the wheel well in shadow. You can even see a "penumbra" on the edge of the shadow...the light is low behind the photographer and diffused, maybe from overcast. You remember about the "umbra" and the "penumbra" from high school physics, right? If not, see definition below:

n. pl. (-br) or 1. A partial shadow, as in an eclipse, between regions of complete shadow and complete illumination. See Synonyms at shade.
2. The grayish outer part of a sunspot.
3. An area in which something exists to a lesser or uncertain degree: "The First Amendment has a penumbra where privacy is protected from governmental intrusion" Joseph A. Califano, Jr.
4. An outlying surrounding region; a periphery: "Downtown Chicago and its penumbra also stand rejuvenated" John McCormick.


Aw, quit worrying about being right on this now, and focus on hosting your regional! HaHaHa...

Ya'll have a good time up there now, ya' hear?!

[Dave S.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Robert, Patrick, Chuck, et al:
If you refer to Patrick's photo, the line in that photo is in fact a shadow line. The Warbonnet yellow covers vertical of that passenger side entire lip. The yellow you see to the rear of the lip is really there and appears to have some blackout over it. As I look at the drivers side lip I see the same warbonnet yellow on the vertical lip but see total blackout to the rear of the lip. Hope that is not to confusing.

[Graeme B.]

Re: 69 muffler black-out question & shim markings

Hi Greg,back to your question. I had a '69 ,(aug. built i think) chassis #29060 and shim markings were slashes,NOT numbers. Hope this helps.Graeme from OZ.