Ethanol Gas

[Ed D.]

Florida has gone to Ethanol gas that will be in place during the next six months.
Two questions ....what will this do to my 1965 327/300 . Is there an additive that can make this gas safe to use?

[Kent K.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Florida has gone to Ethanol gas that will be in place during the next six months.
Two questions ....what will this do to my 1965 327/300 . Is there an additive that can make this gas safe to use?

Yes, I'm also wondering about my Corvettes. Kent

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Just about all commercial road gasoline sold in the US has ethanol - up to 10 percent by volume - and this has been the case for a couple of years. Prior to that ethanol was blended into many fuels in air quality "non-attainment" areas, especially during winter.

Most vintage engines run okay on the current ethanol gasolline blends, and there is no need for any additives, most of which are otherwise known as "snake oil."

Duke

[Ed D.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Thanks Duke.........
They have done some testing at local gas stations around Orlando and have found 12-14% Ethanol. Local gas distributors have stated they should get it right soon.... Meanwhile... the newspaper is filled with horror stories!

[Donald T.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Our gas here in the heart of corn country (Indiana) has been blended with ethanol for years. So I've run it my vintage and modern vettes without any problem. Although you would not want to run E85 in any vehicle that has not been designed to run on it.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Thanks Duke.........
They have done some testing at local gas stations around Orlando and have found 12-14% Ethanol. Local gas distributors have stated they should get it right soon.... Meanwhile... the newspaper is filled with horror stories!

Given the experience the industry has with blending ethanol and gasoline I'm surprised the local distributors have turned out to be such bubbas.

I believe that the federal statutory limit for ethanol is currently 10 percent, and this has been the limit going back 25 years when "gasohol" was first marketed in some parts of the country.

There has been talk of raising the amount, but that's before the morons that govern us realized that "the law of unintended consequences" is as prevalent as Murphy's law - in this case the effect of mandated increased ethanol on food prices!

Duke

[Ed D.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Duke,

The "Orlando Sentinal" ... has been talking about rotting/disolving gas lines and fuel filter failures! Everyone on this Discussion Board knows better then most what an original fuel filter costs for our cars !!


Thanks Again... Ed

[Kent K.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Given the experience the industry has with blending ethanol and gasoline I'm surprised the local distributors have turned out to be such bubbas.

I believe that the federal statutory limit for ethanol is currently 10 percent, and this has been the limit going back 25 years when "gasohol" was first marketed in some parts of the country.

There has been talk of raising the amount, but that's before the morons that govern us realized that "the law of unintended consequences" is as prevalent as Murphy's law - in this case the effect of mandated increased ethanol on food prices!

Duke

Back in the earley 70,s, our fuel went to 27%+/-and ruined most fuel hoses throughout the engines of all our cars. Who knows what they'll do now??? Suspicious minds.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Duke,

The "Orlando Sentinal" ... has been talking about rotting/disolving gas lines and fuel filter failures! Everyone on this Discussion Board knows better then most what an original fuel filter costs for our cars !!


Thanks Again... Ed

The mass media constantly attempts to raise fear and doubt. That's how they sell more papers or get you to listen to their tawdry broadcasts, which consist more of obnoxious commercial messages than real news.

The popular media is especially bad when reporting on any technology issue, including automotive - absolute morons!

Back when ethanol was first added to gasoline over 25 years ago, the industry upgraded fuel system elastomers, so if your rubber hoses and other organic fuel system materials are no more than 25 years old...

However, I highly recommend you replace all the fuel system rubber hoses if they are this old or you if do not have definitive age documentation.

In particular, the rubber hose from the steel pipe to the fuel pump nipple (and any other rubber fuel/evap/PCV hoses in the engine compartment) will degrade due to heat. The hose from the fuel tank nipple to the pipe is difficult to inspect unless you remove the spare tire tub (C2/3).

Overall, replacing these hoses should be no more than an afternoon of leisurely work, and is a good idea.

Many older cars have had little fuel system maintenance over the years, like replacing hoses, and they are the most likely to see problems with blended-in ethanol.

Ethanol is also a solvent, which can loosen some fuel system deposits and clog filters. If you suspect that your system may have deposits, jury rigging in a temporary cheap filter for a few tanks of fuel might be a good idea.

Duke

[Bruce B.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

In Ohio we have some gas retailers have had 10% ethanol in thier gas for years. My 340HP 62 has run on it ok for years. I understand that the ethanol actually raises the octane value.
The thing that bothers me is when I go to pump gas and a sign on the pump says "enriched with ethanol". It should state "Diluted with ethanol".
It's a proven fact that mileage from ethanol diluted gas is less then from 100% gas. And the cost of ethanol is less then gas but that is not reflected in the price of the diluted gas.
Oh well thats the way it's going to be...

[John M.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Minnesota has sold ethanol fuel exclusively for years, no major problems with my '67. Watch for deterioration of the rubber fuel system parts. If you store your car llike we have to do up here for any amount of time, make sure to add stabilizer as ethanol seems to go bad faster. Once they statring converting over to all ethanol, check around. Some stations may still sell non-oxygenated fuel for collector cars and small engines as they do up here. Our local street rod guys (MN Street Rod Association) post a list of stations on their website that sell non-oxygenated fuel. As earlier posted, stay away from E85!

[John D.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Ed, You didn't ask but I will tell you the ethanol is playing havoc on the rubber parts of the FI cars. It's causing premature leaking of the high pressure pumps, o'ring failure and eventually the old FI's will be leaking all over the intakes and if not watched a possible fire will be the result.
Some say that our new high pressure pump seal made from viton will be the cure and some say it will not be the cure. Cure means the pumps won't leak gas on the hot base plate. If our viton seal does not do the job then we are out of luck. Viton o'rings seem to be working fine with the 10% though.
Listen to the news most every day and you will hear how much of a flop this ethanol is to our economy and our atmosphere. I don't know what our children are going to do. John D.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

Ed, You didn't ask but I will tell you the ethanol is playing havoc on the rubber parts of the FI cars. It's causing premature leaking of the high pressure pumps, o'ring failure and eventually the old FI's will be leaking all over the intakes and if not watched a possible fire will be the result.
Some say that our new high pressure pump seal made from viton will be the cure and some say it will not be the cure. Cure means the pumps won't leak gas on the hot base plate. If our viton seal does not do the job then we are out of luck. Viton o'rings seem to be working fine with the 10% though.
Listen to the news most every day and you will hear how much of a flop this ethanol is to our economy and our atmosphere. I don't know what our children are going to do. John D.

viton is the correct stuff to use. of you buy a rebuild kit for your carbs and the accelerator pump diaphragm or cup is black rubber DO NOT USE IT as the 10% ethanol will attack it. the good parts i have seen are red,green,brown or blue in color

[Don H.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

I have ran ethenol in my 65 for years (300 hp) with no problem. Don H.

[Jack H.]

Re: Ethanol Gas

The Denver front range area was one of the first places in the nation to embrace 'oxygenated' fuels (MTBE or ethanol blend) to fight our 'brown cloud' winter pollution problem. Here's what we've seen as a result:

(1) Tests conducted to determine wide spread useability of the fuel were pretty much exclusive to fuel injected cars (carb based engines haven't been produced in years)!

(2) There IS a corrosive effect to older rubber based components.

(3) Include in that list of rubber items, the nytrile coated fuel bowl floats used by QJet carbs. I was seeing a useful life of 1-2 years before I switched to a soldered brass 'clone' float....

(4) It appears the addition of the alcohol slightly reduces the effective boiling point of gas stored in the carb's fuel bowls. We haven't seen problems with single 4-Bbl carb engines, but HAVE seen tri-power setups suffering at this altitude when pushed under WOT conditions to their red-lines. Many begin to errupt fuel from the carb vent stacks at/near 5200 RPM on hot summer days....

We fixtured one of these 'problem' cars on a chassis dyno, monitored the carbs via closed circuit TV and ran it up to recreate the problem. Random geysers of raw fuel were seen blowing from the vent stacks of the three carbs causing raw fuel to be sucked into the venturis and creating a random over-rich mixture.

The problem went away when we applied refigerated, wet, cooling towels to the fuel lines AND when we drained the tank and ran pure race gas... Then, the car ran without hesitation up to its red-line at/near 6300 RPM.

But, for traditional around town driving, the tri-power cars ran very nicely on the alcohol blended, pump gas...