'65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

[James W.]

I'm in the final stages of dressing the engine for paint. I've already applied the first coat will now install the exhaust manifolds, water pump and harmonic balancer. I'm having trouble identify whether this engine came from the factory with french locks at the front and rear or the exhaust manifolds. The 1965 Judging Guide says nothing regarding the L78 having them, but I've photographed a '65 / 396 car built within days of the one that I am restoring that went through flight at the '05 National Meet that had french locks on the manifolds. So are they supposed to be there or not?

The other questions are whether the bracket that bolts to the left side intake manifold for the throttle return spring and the vacuum line braket located on the right side of the engine are to be installed on the engine and painted when the engine is painted? The final question is the upper right water pump attaching stud supposed to be painted orange or was it installed later at St. Louis and natural in color? See attached pictures, that have the items circled.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to Keith Burmeister for the use of these pictures.

James West

[Joe L.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

I'm in the final stages of dressing the engine for paint. I've already applied the first coat will now install the exhaust manifolds, water pump and harmonic balancer. I'm having trouble identify whether this engine came from the factory with french locks at the front and rear or the exhaust manifolds. The 1965 Judging Guide says nothing regarding the L78 having them, but I've photographed a '65 / 396 car built within days of the one that I am restoring that went through flight at the '05 National Meet that had french locks on the manifolds. So are they supposed to be there or not?

The other questions are whether the bracket that bolts to the left side intake manifold for the throttle return spring and the vacuum line braket located on the right side of the engine are to be installed on the engine and painted when the engine is painted? The final question is the upper right water pump attaching stud supposed to be painted orange or was it installed later at St. Louis and natural in color? See attached pictures, that have the items circled.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to Keith Burmeister for the use of these pictures.

James West

James-----


1965 L-78 used french locks on the end exhaust manifold bolt locations. These were painted when the engine was painted.

The manifold clip for the vacuum advance tube was definitely on the engine when it was painted. However, it was partially shielded by the temporary shield used to "protect" the intake manifold from paint. I believe that it's usually painted on the outside surface, but more-or-less unpainted on the inside surface.

As far as the waterpump stud goes, it was definitely on the engine when it was painted; it was not installed at St. Louis. However, I'm not sure if it was covered, or not, when the engine was painted. I THINK it was painted, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Mike M.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

Hi James.
As Joe mentioned that water pump stud was in position and painted, however, the threads only were masked and remained unpainted.
HaND

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

Hi James.
As Joe mentioned that water pump stud was in position and painted, however, the threads only were masked and remained unpainted.
HaND

Yup, I think there was some sort of mask or cup that was placed on that stud before the engine was painted.
That stud had to be clean because it served as the battery ground cable attaching point on most passenger car applications.
Pretty sure much of the hex portion was unpainted also.

[Mike M.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

My source was the result of this specific question I ask of one of the GM guys a couple of years ago.
Unless he prefers to remain anonymous, perhaps he can jump in to clarify. To paraphrase, he said the plugs were delivered with a protecting paper tube, like a TP core, covering the ends and these were used to cover the threads on that WP stud and that the size was be too small to cover the nut part.
This is what we have seen on the original cars.
FWIW
HaND

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

My source was the result of this specific question I ask of one of the GM guys a couple of years ago.
Unless he prefers to remain anonymous, perhaps he can jump in to clarify. To paraphrase, he said the plugs were delivered with a protecting paper tube, like a TP core, covering the ends and these were used to cover the threads on that WP stud and that the size was be too small to cover the nut part.
This is what we have seen on the original cars.
FWIW
HaND

It's quite possible that the tube had a flange on the back side to partially cover/protect at least the face side of the hex portion. I have a few pic's (somewhere) of brand new big blocks and you can see that the face is unpainted. Much of the flat portion of the hex is unpainted also.
I have a poor quality pic of the engine paint process at Tonawanda but it's not clear enough to determine exactly what the stud was covered with.
I worked on these rascals when they were brand new and I seem to remember most of the hex part being unpainted.

[Mike M.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

Michael
I look forwrd to seeing your pics, they are always very cool.
HaND

[Keith B.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

From looking at my car (the one in the pics)The accelerator spring bracket is painted on the outside but is bare metal on the inside. The water pump stud has no evidence of paint on the threads but has overspray on the nut closest to the block. It would support the idea that something was slipped over the threads. French Locks on the manifolds and were painted at some time. And after 43 years mother nature added some rust--- You want to leave that out on the resto!!!! I have included another extremely low mile car engine picture (This is not my car)--notice no paint on threads and french locks.

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

From looking at my car (the one in the pics)The accelerator spring bracket is painted on the outside but is bare metal on the inside. The water pump stud has no evidence of paint on the threads but has overspray on the nut closest to the block. It would support the idea that something was slipped over the threads. French Locks on the manifolds and were painted at some time. And after 43 years mother nature added some rust--- You want to leave that out on the resto!!!! I have included another extremely low mile car engine picture (This is not my car)--notice no paint on threads and french locks.

My 66 425 HP car had original orange paint on the exhaust manifold lock straps when I bought it 25 years ago and it still has most of it today after another 20,000 miles.

The ears at the end of most of the exhaust manifold runners that attach the manifold to the cyl head still have quite a bit of orange on them.

The accelerator spring bracket still has some/most of the orange on the outer vertical surface but it didn't have any on the inside surface.

I think it's very possible that some of the flats on the water pump stud had orange paint but I don't think any of that would be seen on the forward end of the hex, and obviously, not on the threads.
I have a very interesting, but poor quality, picture of the paint process at the Tonawanda plant. I'll post it later. Yer gunna be a little surprised at the way some items were masked/shielded.

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

Here's an interesting picture taken at the Tonawanda engine plant in 1965.
Hopefully, John Hinckley will see this and help explain.

There appears to be some sort of easily installed and removed "tree" of shields that has been attached to this engine. One shield that appears to run in the same direction as the block deck surface may be shielding the stamp pad. Another part seems to be headed forward and is covering the water pump stud.
The lower end may have a shield that covers the fuel pump opening and surrounding area.
There's a shield placed over the bypass hose from the water pump to intake manifold. (apparently not connected to the tree of shields though.
Each spark plug openong has a tube installed to cover the spark plug and the area around it.

All of this makes sense. As John Hinckley explained in previous posts, these things ran through here in a matter of seconds, not minutes, so one tree, or group of shields, would be easy to install/remove quickly.

I've never been to the Tonawanda plant so I only have pic's to go by on this.

By the way, if you thought exhaust manifolds received "a light mist of orange overspray", this pic may change your mind forever. (wish it was better quality)

[Joel F.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

Very enlightening photo Michael! Keep them coming!

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

I've posted a few pictures of the 396 engine that is now in paint, but not completley dressed out. I am not happy with the overspray coverage on the intake manifold, I think I have too much. I'd like some critiques please.

My plans are to finish hanging on the required parts so that in the next day or so as we can break the engine in on the dyno.


Regards,

James West

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

I am not happy with the overspray coverage on the intake manifold, I think I have too much. I'd like some critiques please.

Yes, I agree. Too much on the intake and not near enough on the exhaust manifolds.
It's difficult, or impossible, to describe the original overspray on the intake. Some areas had a sharp brake line and other areas just had a fading mist line but most did not extend as far inboard on the manifold as yours.
I think I have some pic's of originals here somewhere and if I can find them, I'll post them.
I believe the heater hose nipple in the intake was added at St Louis so it shouldn't have any orange on it.
The mask that covered the bypass hose probably would have covered a bit more of the hose and there would be somewhat of a break line instead of fading off.

Interesting that Tonawanda didn't cup/cover the water pump hub but Flint did.

[John H.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

The paint was cheap air-dry enamel, sprayed at high pressure and volume, and the sprayers only had 12 seconds per engine to do their thing; this was NOT a "concours" paint operation.

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Engine French Locks & Painting Questions

The paint was cheap air-dry enamel, sprayed at high pressure and volume, and the sprayers only had 12 seconds per engine to do their thing; this was NOT a "concours" paint operation.

John, do you have an opinion on the masks that were used? (see Tonawanda photo that I posted earlier on this thread)
I've never been to the Tonawanda plant so, unfortunately, all I have to go on are originals and that picture. Thanks.