63 block numbers and dates

[Gary P.]

I went to a ncrs judged meet, and was deducted 350 points for a wrong motor. I have a Jan. 63 car with a 360hp motor. The judge at the time stated that my motor has a clock on the back flange, and the clock did not start until year 65. Would this be correct? Check out the link because here is a k93 block with a clock. I'm confused. Does anyone know which is correct?

http://tinyurl.com/6xv7gk

[Joe L.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

I went to a ncrs judged meet, and was deducted 350 points for a wrong motor. I have a Jan. 63 car with a 360hp motor. The judge at the time stated that my motor has a clock on the back flange, and the clock did not start until year 65. Would this be correct? Check out the link because here is a k93 block with a clock. I'm confused. Does anyone know which is correct?

http://tinyurl.com/6xv7gk

Gary----


The "casting clock" on castings started well before 1965. Some sources say 1964. I say well before that. I don't know if all 1963 blocks had the "casting clock", but at least some do . In fact, I think that some 1962 castings have it, too.

In any event, any judge that would dock you full credit on the basis of the presence of the casting clock is nuts. If the block has the proper casting number, proper casting date, and proper deck stamping, and all appear to be legitimate, then the judge should question his/her belief that the "casting clock" began in 1965.

[Stuart F.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

Gary;

I am the original owner of a 63 340 hp and I can assure you no one has messed with my engine since I took delivery in August 1963.

I will check it out tomorrow to see if the block has a clock on it. My engine was cast in June 1963.

Stu Fox

[Harry S.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

Gary, that URL takes me to a deleted eBay item?????

[Richard M.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

Right, I saw it about an hour ago, now it's gone.

[Sal R.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

Please tell me what and where is a casting clock

[Tom H.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

This brings up an interesting question for me, and maybe it's been discussed before.

What is an owner to do if an error was made in judging, and the error can be proven after the car has been scored. Can judging be corrected and an appropriate score awarded after the fact, or does the car have to be judged again to obtain proper scoring ?

In this case, can the owner of this car get his lost points back if he can prove the casting clock was present on 63's and the judge was in error ?

[Joel F.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

Tom,

The owner has the right to ask for an opinion from the team lead and judging chairman if they disagree with the individual judge during judging. After judging the score is final. For a full deduction like that, I am surprised the team lead was not consulted from the start.

Joel

[Stuart F.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

Gary;

As promised, I went out and checked my original 63 this morning. I am sorry to say, I can not see any casting clock on the flange. I even shot it with a little cleaner to displace a small amount of crud and there is nothing there but the casting number #3782870 on the left side below the accelerator lever. It is harder to view the right side with the shields in place, but I got a good enough look by playing the light just so.

I too saw the E-Bay ad with the block pictures before they took it down and there is nothing like that clock on mine. My engine was built probably in June 63 for the car's production on 8 July 1963. I may have further information in my data package, but remember, my engine has never been apart further than having the valve covers off so I have not gone looking at anything inside. I'm still not sure if I have 461 or 461-x heads (it's a 340 hp).

Stu Fox

[John H.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

I've never heard of the presence/absence of the casting clock being a determining factor in the authenticity of a block (vs. the casting number and casting date and the other usual "clues" for a Saginaw/Flint block).

That said, I have the Saginaw Foundry drawings from the Pattern Engineering Department (provided by Mark Gorney) of the casting clocks, and they were drawn in March, 1964. Also, Alan Colvin indicates in his "Corvette by the Numbers" book that the casting clock began to appear on Saginaw-cast blocks at some point during 1964.

Any other thoughts?

[Tom H.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

I've never heard of the presence/absence of the casting clock being a determining factor in the authenticity of a block (vs. the casting number and casting date and the other usual "clues" for a Saginaw/Flint block).

That said, I have the Saginaw Foundry drawings from the Pattern Engineering Department (provided by Mark Gorney) of the casting clocks, and they were drawn in March, 1964. Also, Alan Colvin indicates in his "Corvette by the Numbers" book that the casting clock began to appear on Saginaw-cast blocks at some point during 1964.

Any other thoughts?

If this is the case, and the casting clock was indeed not on 63's, did the judge make the right call on this one, or should the clock not even be a factor if the judged items such as casting number and pad appear correct ??

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

I've never heard of the presence/absence of the casting clock being a determining factor in the authenticity of a block (vs. the casting number and casting date and the other usual "clues" for a Saginaw/Flint block).

That said, I have the Saginaw Foundry drawings from the Pattern Engineering Department (provided by Mark Gorney) of the casting clocks, and they were drawn in March, 1964. Also, Alan Colvin indicates in his "Corvette by the Numbers" book that the casting clock began to appear on Saginaw-cast blocks at some point during 1964.

Any other thoughts?

I have a great pic of an 870 casting number with the clock on a block cast 26 Feb 64.

Isn't there another way to detect a later 870 block by the location of the rib on the front of the block, just above the timing chain cover? Wasn't that rib moved slightly in 64?

[William C.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

The timing chain cover was not moved, but the pad where the numbers are stamped was lengthened at about the same time the clock was added. All '65 had the long pad and clock, have never seen a verified '63 with clock, 64 seems to be the changeover year. My bet is if the '63 had a clock, the judges would have found other issues with it as well, including the length of the pad and likely other issues as well.

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

The timing chain cover was not moved, but the pad where the numbers are stamped was lengthened at about the same time the clock was added. All '65 had the long pad and clock, have never seen a verified '63 with clock, 64 seems to be the changeover year. My bet is if the '63 had a clock, the judges would have found other issues with it as well, including the length of the pad and likely other issues as well.

Here are a few pic's of an 870 block cast B254. Has the clock and a wide gap between the stamp pad and rib.

[Gary P.]

Re: 63 block numbers and dates

After reading all the posts, It's fair to say that I have an incorrect motor. After putting all my time and money into this car, thinking or was told by many people thats it numbers correct. Including a top NCRS judge.I would like to thank everybody for there input. Now I will be looking for a replacement block. Any leads would be great. Thanks again. Need Dec.62