CE block - understanding it?!

[Michael W.]

Hi,

I searched in the history of the forum and the judging manual I have at home but could not find what I am looking for. As such when scouting adverts and even in our club i occasionally see the CE (counter exchange) blocks comming. Just some questions:
- how does NCRS treat the CE block during judging? Full deduction or partial?
- is there any NCRS documentation on the CE blocks, to get anwser on:
* understanding of the codes
* when and why were they sold
* what are the differences for the various build years
* etc
* etc

Would be interested in that!

Thks

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

I believe the 'CE' is for 'Chevrolet Engine'. In Flight Judging, they are treated no differently than any other engine.

Being that the engine is a service replacement for the original, it may have a different casting number or most likely have a casting date later than the build date of the car, so the judging will stop at that point- for the engine casing. If the casting number and date are acceptable, the pad will be judged in accordance with the usual expectations.

Since the machine code and VIN derivative will be different than original factory production, there will be the standard deductions taken there.

The pad surface should be acceptable, so no deduction there.

The best you can hope for a witha CE engine is a 50 point deduction for the incorrect VIN derivative and machine codes.

[Joel F.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

I think Michael handled most of the particulars of your question. Unless the CE engine is the correct casting number, the owner typically loses all of the engine case points.

One additional point is that the numbers on the pad denote the sequence the engine was built. Generally it goes CE followed by the last digit of the year, followed by a sequence number for the plant it was assembled at for that year. Each plant had a number range assigned to it.

I hope this helps.

Joel

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

For example CE 191122 means:
CE
1 = 61 or 71?
91122 = plant number?

Thks

[Joel F.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

For example CE 191122 means:
CE
1 = 61 or 71?
91122 = plant number?

Thks

Michael,

In general, yes this is true. Are the numbers above the real numbers on the stamp pad or for illustration only?

I think a bit of detective work and common sense can tell you if the 1 is for 61 or 71. For starters, I think the process of stamping CE blocks as such did not exist until later in the 60's, so my guess would be it is for 71. The casting number should hold the key as to what year that digit represents.

The 91122 for plant number is not exactly correct. A given plant would have a range of numbers to use, so this number would represent the sequence number for CE's built at that plant. For example, Flint had 20000 to 49999. So 21122 would represent the 1,222 CE engine built at Flint in 1971. I do not know what plant would have been in the 91122 range (if any).

Joel

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

Joel,

Thanks for the anwser. This is a real number on a block. I have it on pics and the stamping looks original.

I just try to gain this knowledge so that we can give some proper info to our Dutch members - so thanks!

Mike

[Terry M.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

For example CE 191122 means:
CE
1 = 61 or 71?
91122 = plant number?

Thks

That is right Michael. The number 91122 is a sequence number. That means it is a consecutive number from a block of numbers assigned to that particular engine plant for that size engine. Without knowing what number the block of numbers begins with one doesn't know what the consecutive number means.

The example you cite might be the 91,122 service engine of that size built (not likely) that year, or if the block of numbers began with 50000 it would be the 41,122 service engine built (again an unlikely large number). But perhaps the block began with 90000 -- then this engine would be the 1,122 service engine built. But you can see that without knowing what block of numbers was assigned to this particular engine plant, one doesn't have much to go on.

Even if one knew the block assigned one would also have to know how they counted engines. Did they count fitted cases (block with pistons and rings) the same as "short blocks" and "long blocks"? The possible combinations go on and on, as you can see.

[Michael W.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

Terry & Joel,

to make the info complete the following numbers are on the block:
CE 191122
3932386

We know the car is an NOM (looks are original though).

Mike

[William C.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

What is the casting date on the block? That might provide some additional insight.

[Jim T.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

My original owner 1970's CE engine was installed under my new car warranty of 5 years/50,000 miles. My coupe ws purchased 8/18/1970.
The only NCRS point deductions for engine numbers are for incorrect stampings on the engine pad. The block casting number is 3970010 and the date of casting is D260. My 70 was built in July.
The engine pad stamping of the replacement block is CE0A 47538. This engine was installed in August 1970.
This site may be helpful http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/D...0/ceblock.html

CE Chevrolet Engine
0A 1970 Automatic
47538 CE engine sequence number

If records were kept, I would hold the record for the shortest minutes of ownership of a brand new 1970 Corvette before engine destruction. My car engine failed within minutes leaving the dealership and never saw rpm's over 2000. The car was purchased from the showroom floor of the dealership.

[Joel F.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

That is a good site, thanks Jim!

[John H.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

a bit of detective work and common sense can tell you if the 1 is for 61 or 71.

It's '71 - the "CE" stamp program didn't start until April, 1969.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

My original owner 1970's CE engine was installed under my new car warranty of 5 years/50,000 miles. My coupe ws purchased 8/18/1970.
The only NCRS point deductions for engine numbers are for incorrect stampings on the engine pad. The block casting number is 3970010 and the date of casting is D260. My 70 was built in July.
The engine pad stamping of the replacement block is CE0A 47538. This engine was installed in August 1970.
This site may be helpful http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/D...0/ceblock.html

CE Chevrolet Engine
0A 1970 Automatic
47538 CE engine sequence number

If records were kept, I would hold the record for the shortest minutes of ownership of a brand new 1970 Corvette before engine destruction. My car engine failed within minutes leaving the dealership and never saw rpm's over 2000. The car was purchased from the showroom floor of the dealership.

I probably was those damn plastic tooth timing gears. GM used them on all there cars. My brothers 70 GTO blew on the interstate with only 3000 mi. I toke it off my 2 70 LT-1S. There was a lot of warrenty work because of them. I would check any 70 GM car.
KEN
KEN

[Michael M.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

OK I have a strange on for someone to take a stab at, this is an actuasl stamp I have:

CE3A84

the foirst three ###s are logical, but I haven't found anyone who can tell me why the 84.............any help?

[Cecil L.]

Re: CE block - understanding it?!

From our friends at the CRG:

"Quoting from a Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin dated 14 April, 1969:

The first letter will designate the GM division which produced the engine. C-Chevrolet L-Oldsmobile K-Cadillac B-Buick P-Pontiac

The second letter will designate the type of unit "E" engine or "T" transmission. The number following the letter will designate the model year "9" for 1969. The last five digits specify the service replacement unit sequence number. The group of numbers to be used by Chevrolet manufacturing plants [for engines, CRG] are as follows:

Flint motor plant (L-6 engines) 00001 to 19999
Flint V-8 engine plant 20000 to 49999
Tonowanda motor plant 50000 to 79999

Example: Number CE900175 designates Chevrolet engine - 1969 year, and the 175th unit produced for service at the Flint motor plant.

This numbering system applies to service engine assemblies, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases.

The reference further states that all Hydra-Matic transmissions are coded "H" regardless of division produced for.

At this time, CRG does not know if extra production engines and transmissions (produced in excess of the assembly plant needs) were also used as service parts."