Demise of 348 Engine?

[Jim S.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

The 1963 drag racing Z11 engine was a true W block. The 1963 Nascar "Mystery Motor" was the first generation Mark IV engine. The Nascar engine is (was?) on display at the GM Historical Museum. It was called out as the "mystery motor". The valve covers were wide and looked just like the 396 straight variety with four bolts along the lower side. One side was cutaway and you could easily see the splayed "porcupine" valves.

Jim

[Frank C.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

doesn't anyone here remember the first OHV V8 was a Chevrolet in about 1917 or so. There used to be one on display at Harrahs in Reno until its demise. I picked up several $20 dollar bills in bars on who made the first OHV V8. If I remember correctly they had no valve covers because rocker lube came from grease cups

[Chuck S.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

doesn't anyone here remember the first OHV V8 was a Chevrolet in about 1917 or so. There used to be one on display at Harrahs in Reno until its demise. I picked up several $20 dollar bills in bars on who made the first OHV V8. If I remember correctly they had no valve covers because rocker lube came from grease cups

Dang, Frank, HOW OLD ARE YOU? I don't think my mother could remember that far back...she wasn't born until 1920! HaHaHa...

Uh...In view of the "grease cups" and lack of valve covers, maybe we should limit this category to the first PRACTICAL, MODERN OHV V8; No, I know, it wasn't Ford.

[Joe L.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

Joe, Ford actually beat Chevrolet to an OHV V8 by first introducing the Y block in 1954 in a 239 cu in version (same displacement as Ford's predecessor flat head design). We had a 54 Fairlane sedan with one...I learned to drive in that car; not exactly a hot performer. I seem to vaguely remember the 272 cu in, but that engine eventually became their workhorse 289 cu in.

In view of the way things worked out, Ford should have availed themselves of another year to perfect their design ...the SBC Chevy was by far the better performing, more efficient engine during the fifties, sixties and seventies. Ford eventually retired that old Y small block about 1963, and replaced it with a design very similar to the SBC...I believe those were the engines that went into the small block Cobra.

Chuck-----

The Ford 272 did not evolve to the 289. It evolved to the 292 and the 312. This so-called "Y-block" engine saw its final use in 1962. This series engine was never used in anything but full size Fords, Thunderbirds, and trucks

The 289 started its life in the 1963 Fairlane with a 221 cid engine. Then, for 1964 it was enlarged to 260 cid and 289 cid. In 1968 it went to 302 cid and in 1969 the 351 W (Windsor) was introduced. In both 260 and 289 form it was used in Cobras.

The 221-351W is the Ford engine series that most closely resembles the small block Chevy which, I feel pretty confident, is where its "inspiration" came from. Actually, though, this series Ford engine is considerably smaller than the small block Chevrolet.

[Joe L.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

The 1963 drag racing Z11 engine was a true W block. The 1963 Nascar "Mystery Motor" was the first generation Mark IV engine. The Nascar engine is (was?) on display at the GM Historical Museum. It was called out as the "mystery motor". The valve covers were wide and looked just like the 396 straight variety with four bolts along the lower side. One side was cutaway and you could easily see the splayed "porcupine" valves.

Jim

Jim-----

The "Mystery Motor" was actually of a series GM called the Mark II. It was what you might call a "very limited production" engine series. It was like thgis for big blocks:

Mark I------348-409 (1958-1965)

Mark II------"Mystery Motor"

Mark III------"stillborn"; never produced

Mark IV------366, 396, 402, 427, 454 (1965-1991)

Mark V------454 (also 502, but for marine and service only) (1991-1995)

Gen VI------454 (also 502 but for marine and service only) 1995-present

"Gen VII"-----8.1 L (496 cid) 2000-present

[Dick W.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

W series, including the drag Z11, was MK I. Mystery engine was MK II
Picture of MK II

[Clem Z.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

edelbrock has released aluminum cylinder heads,2 X 4 intake and rocker arm covers for the 348/409 engines so these engine must still be in demand. to keep these posts in the corvette theme a friend had a 57 corvette with a 409/425 HP "W" engine back in the early 60s

[Chuck S.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

Chuck-----

The Ford 272 did not evolve to the 289. It evolved to the 292 and the 312. This so-called "Y-block" engine saw its final use in 1962. This series engine was never used in anything but full size Fords, Thunderbirds, and trucks

The 289 started its life in the 1963 Fairlane with a 221 cid engine. Then, for 1964 it was enlarged to 260 cid and 289 cid. In 1968 it went to 302 cid and in 1969 the 351 W (Windsor) was introduced. In both 260 and 289 form it was used in Cobras.

The 221-351W is the Ford engine series that most closely resembles the small block Chevy which, I feel pretty confident, is where its "inspiration" came from. Actually, though, this series Ford engine is considerably smaller than the small block Chevrolet.

You're right...it was the 292 cu in, and not 289, that was the full size Ford Y-Block I remember most at the local Ford dealership where I worked 60-61. Two mechanics would collaborate to rebuild one in a day; they must have done a hundred of them. I had pretty much lost interest in Fords by the time the 312 came around, but the Windsors caught my eye.

I also erred in the trim level of our car (CRS)...Fairlane was first introduced as a trim level in the full size Ford in 1955; our 54 was a Customline, which was the middle trim level...Mainline was the base model and Crestline(?) was the top trim level. Ford used the first Y-Block in 54 full-size Fords at 239 cu in.

The Fairlane name was re-introduced as a mid-size car in 1962, and it was the first application of the new Ford Windsor small block at 221 cu in; I thought it was a 260 cu in, but that was not until 63.

[Joe R.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

Mmmm...No, I think the "little 409" was the last iteration of the 348. I think the "Mark" engine was the first of the famous Big Blocks that went from 396 to 427 to 454 cu in.

I've heard the 348/409 was too heavy, too complicated, too expensive to build, and didn't deliver the power per cu in. In other words, if you don't have one as an original engine (tri-power) in a 58 Chevy Impala sport coupe/convertible, they are more useful as large ship anchors.

When I was sixteen I had a '61 Impala with a 348. I found that at best, it ran neck-and-neck with the 327s that my friends had. So, I built a clone of the 409, 425 HP "Super Stock" engine that had dual quads and all the other good stuff. That pretty much took care of the small block competition, but I think that an equally-built 396 was probably faster than my 409. Even so, I had a lot of fun with that car.

[Terry R.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

Clem was that '57 with the 409 around Yuma, AZ?

[Clem Z.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

Clem was that '57 with the 409 around Yuma, AZ?

it was in penn hills near pittsburgh pa.

[John H.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

doesn't anyone here remember the first OHV V8 was a Chevrolet in about 1917 or so. There used to be one on display at Harrahs in Reno until its demise. I picked up several $20 dollar bills in bars on who made the first OHV V8. If I remember correctly they had no valve covers because rocker lube came from grease cups

Here's the 1917-1918 Chevy OHV V-8.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

Here's the 1917-1918 Chevy OHV V-8.

In your photo, John, the left bank seems to show it having valve covers...they probably left the cover off the right bank for illustration.

Love that bell housing...strictly functional; clearly, no scattershield was required. HaHaHa...

[Mike B.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

I'm glad that I ignited a firestorm of memories about that 348 and its successor engines! It was a very interesting education for me, even if it wasn't pure Corvette related.

I particularly liked those photos of the '63 Z11 from John Hinckley. The engine is great looking and the restoration meticulous. But I couldn't help to notice the feeble looking, single circuit master cylinder on the firewall. All that grunt made to make it go, yet still primitive technology to make it stop.

Thanks again!

[John H.]

Re: Demise of 348 Engine?

In your photo, John, the left bank seems to show it having valve covers...they probably left the cover off the right bank for illustration.

Love that bell housing...strictly functional; clearly, no scattershield was required. HaHaHa...

Yup, they had valve covers, although the pushrods ran through them - couple more photos below.