4360 1957 Fuel Injection

[Mike G.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

also they will not doc you points for having the fuel shutoff device installed even though the factory did not put them on there. its a good safety device. i did get a 1 point deduct for having a bolt in the crank pulley. thats also a good safety device. in that case i will take the deduct. if that pulley comes off i will lose alot more than a point.

[Mike M.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

neat that you should mention the harmonic bal bolt add on. the 56-7 judging manual revision team discussed the issue just last week and it would appear the new judging manual will not deduct for the bolt add-on as its considered a saftey issue as you mention. regarrdless of how the new manual address the bolt add-on , i;ve alread installed a bolt on my 57 250 hp engine and will take the hit if need be. mike

[John D.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

4360 serial # 69 has the white plugs on the nozzle blocks. far as i know, all the 4360's were dual spiders.I'm just gettin ready to install an anti-siphoning device on my 4360. BTW, as an early 4360, serial # 69 lacks the familiar Rochesster ID tag on the plenum. its serail # is hand stamped on the back wall of the doghouse/plenum. mike

Bruce and others, FYI sir not ALL the 4360's were dual spiders and thank the Lord for that. The later '4360s are SINGLE spider which is a blessing in that you can easily install a siphon breaker-shut off solenoid kit on them.
As far as the white dots go that was a short lived thing that did not appear the entire model for the following reason. Cracks. Dis-similiar materials caused the black plastic block to crack around the white dots. I don't work on those POC '4360's anymore because too old and cranky. But when I did practically everyone one of those blocks would be cracked around the white dot. The later single spider '4360 blocks had black plugs. Old Kenny Kayser is more up on these units and this info may appear in his new book as to exactly where the break off period was. If you find the later '4360 and also the'4520 blocks it doesn't take much to put a home made white dot plug in. JD

[John D.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

Joe, my unit 136 (1136) has the number stamped on the back of the plenum and the RPD tag in the normal spot on the side. Ken Kayser thinks that it had both numbers since RPD was making the change to the tag. It is shown in his book on page 474. It also has the nozzle blocks with the white dots.
I just ordered a anti-siphon device from John D. as I believe it is essential especially if the car will be driven as it will be.
The 57 is #809 250 HP Powerglide all red.
Thanks to everyone for thier input.
Bruce B

Bruce, Glad you are working with KK on this project as he is the #1 guru. Kenny's whole life has been '4360's. I used to think that the white dots disappeared around 1300 or so. You unit seems a little too early for a single spider though. But so what. You are much better off whether it is correct or not in that the single spider is a vast improvement over the POC dual spider setup. That shut off solenoid will help save ur engine as long as you don't get any dirt or varnish plugging up the rubber tipped seat inside the valve. I have seen a few dual spiders with solenoids under them but they looked like bubba did them. Bob Williams has quite a unique set up for a siphon breaker kit but if the guys want to use it they should let Bob install it as its not or the weak hearted. You can easily screw up a fuel meter bowl installed it. Bob has a jig he includes with his kit though. But I think I would buy it from Bob and let him put it on. He is a really good FI man for sure. Loves those 57's. Hasn't learned yet. JD

[Mike M.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

agree the 4360's are inferior to the rest of the rochester units from 4520 thru the 380's in '65 BUT this old 4360 pulled 10 more HP on the dyno last week that a new 600 cfm Holley, all other variable being equal. mike

[John D.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

agree the 4360's are inferior to the rest of the rochester units from 4520 thru the 380's in '65 BUT this old 4360 pulled 10 more HP on the dyno last week that a new 600 cfm Holley, all other variable being equal. mike

Must have been a defective Holley Maybe was out the night before or something.

[John D.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

also they will not doc you points for having the fuel shutoff device installed even though the factory did not put them on there. its a good safety device. i did get a 1 point deduct for having a bolt in the crank pulley. thats also a good safety device. in that case i will take the deduct. if that pulley comes off i will lose alot more than a point.

Mike, I have been installing the shut off solenoid kits for an eon. It's a hard sell though convincing a car owner he needs that syphon breaker kit. JD's spelling of siphon. Anyhow later on when he blows his engine all over the road or bends boo coo connecting rods the poor guy comes begging for a kit. The look on their face is something to remember.
In fact in my vendor trailer I have a nice bent up connecting rod on life loan from one of our esteemed members here. Right Doc???
Glad they don't deduct a point. But if they did so what. I just wish we had a good kit to install on the mid year units. I did it once long ago but it was a nightmare.
One thing you hear a lot of from the novice is that they think their '64-65 FI -the 7380 unit has a shut off solenoid under it. That is totally incorrect. That solenoid is for starting only. Take care, John D.

[Mike G.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

here is my 4360

[Mike M.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

craftsmanship evident. great pic.when's the 57 gonna be shown at ncrs event? mike

[Mike G.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

its done all that. i did ncrs last janruary in kissimmee. it did well. then i did bloomington in june and it did well there too. did vettefest in november and its now a tripple crown car. i tried the pv thing in charlotte and was going to go for a duntov in boston but the car did not pass. my glove box key would rotate 360 degrees and i could not fix that there. i spent alot of money and time to go there. i am pretty high strung anyway but i was really stressed out about it. to top it off i got food poisioning that night and was real sick the next day. dont know if i will do that again. i like flight judging better. its always a good time. for now i will just stick with that. i hope to have my 70 lt1 vert ready for the kissimmee show in janruary. thats what i am investing all my free time in now. good luck with your 57, they are great cars. i have some fi filter assemblies if you need one. i still have a few rare old parts

[John D.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

its done all that. i did ncrs last janruary in kissimmee. it did well. then i did bloomington in june and it did well there too. did vettefest in november and its now a tripple crown car. i tried the pv thing in charlotte and was going to go for a duntov in boston but the car did not pass. my glove box key would rotate 360 degrees and i could not fix that there. i spent alot of money and time to go there. i am pretty high strung anyway but i was really stressed out about it. to top it off i got food poisioning that night and was real sick the next day. dont know if i will do that again. i like flight judging better. its always a good time. for now i will just stick with that. i hope to have my 70 lt1 vert ready for the kissimmee show in janruary. thats what i am investing all my free time in now. good luck with your 57, they are great cars. i have some fi filter assemblies if you need one. i still have a few rare old parts

Mike, Nice collection. But make sure you don't use those old filter element for sure. Dirt will cause a '57 to come to a screaching halt. I typically step on them with my size 14 so the customer doesn't get any bright ideas about re-using them. Nice collection you have. John D.

[John D.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

agree the 4360's are inferior to the rest of the rochester units from 4520 thru the 380's in '65 BUT this old 4360 pulled 10 more HP on the dyno last week that a new 600 cfm Holley, all other variable being equal. mike

Dr. Mike, How many years ago did I do that '4360??? Must be an eon cause I don't even remember it. JD

[Loren L.]

No assistance, but a reminder from the real world

There is a 40 year career retired Chevrolet employee living in Wickenberg AZ who, in 1957, was in the Philadelphia Zone Office and charged with supervision of "Warranty Repairs" within the Zone. I'm not going after the file, but there are two vivid memories of his interview; 1) in 1957, he had two mechanics assigned the zone to do ONLY FUEL INJECTIONS; he recalled one of these gentlemen returning from a call and stating "Can we call Rochester Products direct? I'm beginning to believe that they have NEVER built two of these units that are the same!" and 2) there came a time in 1957 that these gentlemen NEVER left the Zone Office on a call without a NEW UNIT IN THE BOX. They tried to keep three on hand.

[Mike G.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

i bought a nos filter for every one of my assemblies. all new in the gm box. i was told you can put the old filters upside down in an ultrasonic cleaner in amonia and it will clean them but i have never done it. i found a guy that had a bunch of the nos filters and bought them all. i kept one for each unit and put the rest and the used filters on ebay. just the filters bring good money. hopefully in about 10 years or so these units will bring some real money.

[John D.]

Re: 4360 1957 Fuel Injection

Loren, Long ago a friend of mine and old time NCRS member, founder of the Pittsburgh Chapter, and an FI guru by the name of Barry Holmes said something to me about 57 FI's that I will never forget.
He said the trouble with you and NCRS and the 57 FI's is that you all expect that things went ABC with those units. You think that they came off the lines in an orderly fashion and the unit models progressed thru the years. Barry said it just didn't happen that way.
Sorta like your old GM zone manager or tech man.
GM lost a lot of customers over the early FI units. But not this one.
Well in 57's RP and GM were grasping for straws. Frank Sciabica told me quite often that I was full of crap. He liked to get me going and I pretty much respected him but we did have some heated discussions in person. But boy do I miss old Frank.
Frank as you know worked for old RP for an eon. I think he started in 1957 and worked for RP until the early 80's. He said RP sent units to St. Louis in a disorganized fashion. He said if RP get one to work no matter what the castings were it went out the door. He also said they didn't write everything down or keep good records as they were supposed to do. Frank said the '57's were horrible and luckily short lived. The dealers couldn't fix them and didn't even try so that's why sooo many 4800 and 4800R service replacement units out there. See Kenny's book for a ton of info on this.
Now Kenny Kayser though has done a wonderful job of putting this mess today in a first class presentation in his new book. I hear there are some major changes in the works as far as which 57 unit should be on your 57 Corvette as far as NCRS goes. I hear that the '4520 unit was used much later than previously thought. That's a shame as the 4960 unit will run circles around it but whatever. John D.