Another TI Ignition Issue

[Lawrence S.]

I have confirmed that I have 12 volts at the back of the ignition switch.
I checked for voltage on the firewall plug inboard plug lower right pin which was a black and pink wire. I have no voltage there. Provided this is the correct pin, I am losing voltage from the ignition switch to the firewall. If there are any plugs or connections anyone knows of let me know. I did not see any in the wiring diagram. I believe I have the correct pin per the wiring diagram.

Lawrence

[Richard M.]

Lawrence when I get to my hotel in SC later I'll look at the wiring diagram on my laptop.

On the road right now.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Lawrence, I was going to mention I didn't recall the ignition wire went through a bulkhead connector, but I wanted to check my 1965 wiring diagram first. It does not go through the bulkhead connector.

There are 2 18G Blk/Pink wires on the IGN terminal of the Ignition switch. Well, there should be two.

One goes to the fuse panel, to the "Gauges" fuse, to then power the Temp/Fuel gauges, and also through the rear Body Connector to power the Fuel Sender. I think you confused the body connector and the bulkhead connectors on your diagram, as they both have 8 pins. There is a Blk/Pink on a bulkhead connector, but that is sourced from the Brown wire ACC circuit for the Voltage Regulator.

The other 18G Blk/Pink on the IGN terminal goes directly through the grommet in the firewall near the wiper motor. On a points ignition it goes to the input of the Ballast Resistor. In your K66 TI system, it goes to the TI Harness power plug(White Resistor wire) to power the TI system(Amp and Pickup Coil).

If you only see one Blk/Pink wire on the back of the ignition switch, the other one may have broken off of the terminal and is hanging there somewhere. See if you can get a helper to tug on it in the engine bay while you're inside under the dash to see if it can be seen up near the firewall above the throttle pedal. It is then wrapped in the interior harness so you'll have to get a good view to see if it moves.

Rich

[Lawrence S.]

Ok, I made a rookie move. Tested + coil voltage with the connector unplugged. Plugged it has 5-7 volts at Coil+ with key to RUN.

"If good, check Dist PU coil. Disconnect dist plug. Check for 500-700 ohms at the 2 dist terminals". With my ohm meter at 2K setting I have .600 ohms. I am assuming this is good?

Wiggle wire when testing. Also check each terminal to engine ground to verify there is no hard short, again while wiggling wires. No short here if I am checking the correct location.

I hooked up a test light to chassis ground and to the - side of the coil and turned the car over. I had no pulse in the light just a constant bright light. I should have a pulsing light right?

[Lawrence S.]

I got the car running but still can't solve for a correct static timing or 36* at 3,000 rpm. Still too advanced. I suppose I will have to retard the timing another distributor tooth still using Duke's method but perhaps have the distributor one tooth retarded. Not sure what else to do.

[Mark M.]

If your off 1 or more teeth when stabbing the distributor, it won't let you time the engine to the timing tab on the timing chain cover. But you may be able to turn the distributor to make it run well even though it's not in the factory intended clock position. Depending on where it's off it won't let you turn the vacuum canister to the factory location. If the intake and distributor are original to each other, there should be a chisel mark made on each of the flanges where they come together that line up where Tonawanda engine plant marked them when they first ran the engine on natural gas. They may be hard to see in the car but use a good light and small mirror. If the engine runs well after trying different clock positions and you find the marks and they don't line up, the distributor shaft is stabbed in the wrong clock position to the cam. As Duke mentioned replacement parts could change how things line up. Basically if you static time correctly, we called it cold timing I've done it hundreds of times, it should get you there. I can't remember the first time I cold timed an engine almost 50 years ago but most likely it took more than ounce!

[James G.]

I had some VERY SIMILAR TI issues which I had thought were taken care of a couple years ago, last summer it went back to the warm starting nightmare - cranking and seeming like it is starting but then never fully fire.
After all diagnostics - when the problem was occurring - the tests signaled one thing - the magnetic pickup in the distributor - it would test out fine & the car would run - when the car was hot it would do the exact same thing as yours - just about start -
& at this time the pickup would fail the test.
I bit the bullet and bought a NOS pickup assembly - when I disassembled my distributor I found the magnet had a fracture, it had accumulated a slight oxidation there, none of it was visible as assembled , only after removing the brass screws and pulling the top metal plate with the 8 trigger points - could I see the visible signs of the fracture -

I have not had a single issue related to the ignition since replacing the pickup.

I chased this for nearly 2 years... initially I thought it could be the pickup, however in the beginning the pickup never tested bad - however it would take me min of 2 hours to get a truck trailer and then get the car back to the house.

[Duke W.]

Ten days, over 20 posts, and it's still not clear to me if the fundamental problem is the distributor assembly/installation or a fault in the TI system. It's time for an interactive discussion, so how about giving me a call. I'm on Pacific time and will be around all day today and tomorrow.

Look at your CSM and memorize the centrifugal and vacuum advance specs. I also want to know the ID data on the VAC mounting bracket, and the approximate angle of a line perpendicular to the cap window relative to engine centerline. Post a photo if you can.

Duke
310
372
5527

[Lawrence S.]

Hi Guys,
Quick update, I had the car running but still not fully repaired as of yet. By way of background this car had been sitting for 10 years prior to me buying it. So I was not positive what I had and got it started and running initially but ran into troubles thus this thread. As I have worked through this, I believe the distributor is stabbed correctly, (Mike Zamora restored the distributor in the car) have voltages per spec based on many conversations with Rich M.
As I mentioned above car still not 100%, pulled the carb off because it started spewing fuel from the vent tube, repaired a hung up float and cruddy needle and seat. Ran ok for awhile, but not running correctly. Then same thing fountain of fuel. Pulled carb, upon opening the carb up found paper gaskets deteriorated and as if glued to the metering blocks and carb body. So at the moment I am working on cleaning that mess up.
Mid last week I left town to my daughters wedding over the weekend so just now getting back on this project.
Will update once I get the carb back on the car.
Lawrence

[Lawrence S.]

Ten days, over 20 posts, and it's still not clear to me if the fundamental problem is the distributor assembly/installation or a fault in the TI system. It's time for an interactive discussion, so how about giving me a call. I'm on Pacific time and will be around all day today and tomorrow.

Look at your CSM and memorize the centrifugal and vacuum advance specs. I also want to know the ID data on the VAC mounting bracket, and the approximate angle of a line perpendicular to the cap window relative to engine centerline. Post a photo if you can.

Duke
310
372
5527

Duke, I will give you a call on Thursday. Thanks for the help! Will post a picture
Lawrence

[Lawrence S.]

Here are the pics

[Duke W.]

Duke, I will give you a call on Thursday. Thanks for the help! Will post a picture
Lawrence

I just have a land line with no message machine and will be out tomorrow until about noon (pacific time), so don't call until a little after noon PT at the earliest.

Duke

[Lawrence S.]

Cleaned up the carb put a kit in it, and plan to fire the car up tomorrow. Will let you guys know if I have any luck. I have to restab the distributor will do so.

[Duke W.]

I got the car running but still can't solve for a correct static timing or 36* at 3000 rpm.

I don't understand what you mean by the above. The AMA specs say centrifugal starts at 1000 and max is 28 @ 5000. So if initial is 8 you would not see 36 (VAC hose disconnected and plugged) until about 5000.

However I have NO IDEA if the centrifugal is OE or has been modified. So I suggest you static time it at 8-12, and if you can get the engine running determine the centrifugal start and top points, and then go from there

It may be the camera angle, but it looks like the distributor is clocked a bit more CW that I would expect with 8-12 initial. Look at the following thread.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/forum/te...orrected/page2

Not that I static timed this L-78 and when it was warmed up and checked with a timing light it was right on the money where I static timed it at 10.

One other issue you should check... probably not related to the current issues, but the 201 15 OE VAC doesn't meet the Two-Inch Rule since with the OE cam idle behavior is typically 14" at 900, and the VAC signal line with the OE carb should be full time, not ported, like on L-72 and L-71. The 201 15 takes about 15.5" to pull to the limit. A 12" B26 VAC should work okay... NAPA VC-1765 or equivalent in another major brand. Parts stores can cross reference. I recommend buying VACs locally and testing that they meet spec before you pay because there are many reports of out of specs VACs.

Duke

[Lawrence S.]

Ok guys this is 10* BTDC. The rotor tip looks like it is too far past number 1 plug tower to me? Also too far clockwise from an aerial view?
Shouldn’t the rotor tip be before number 1 plug tower?
I have to run out for FD breakfast and will pick this up after lunch.
Thank you