Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

[Troy P.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

I found some of the grainy black stuff you described on some rear suspension parts.

[Larry G.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Mark, thank you for your kind words about my books.

You are correct. There was no painting anywhere inside the plant except in a ventilated down draft paint booth. Pictures showing paint applied to a chassis was a one off, likely for display. UAW would not tolerate open painting on line.

Frames came from A O Smith in Granite City, IL. A O Smith set up to assemble Corvette Frames, it was on an automated line. Once set up, the line ran off several hundred frames, perhaps several 1000 as the assembly line required 100 per day and A O Smith would not take the time to set up the automated line to run a few hundred frames. The frame was lightly painted black for shipping and storage protection. Frames were stored outside in St. Louis leaning against the plant wall. They rusted. The rusty frames were spot painted with Chevrolet Blackout paint to hide the rust that did not match A O Smith paint. I recall them being painted outside or on the shipping doc. Never on line.

Chassis components like drive shafts, differential assemblies, suspension parts etc. were supplied painted to protect during storage. Notes on drawings to avoid painting mating parts, i.e., drive shaft yoke to transmission were there to minimize paint on the machined surface when "shipping" paint was applied.

There were customer complaints in 1963 about the visibility of the shiny muffler behind the rear wheels. Correction was achieved by the supplier of the exhaust pipe, muffler and tail pipe painting those parts as part of their requirement. I do not have a date when this practice began but I have a picture of a 1965(?) Corvette with a black muffler and exhaust pipe.

[Troy P.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Larry,
Just ordered both of your books. Personal factory experience is terribly valuable. The 63-64 TIMJG is close to being updated. Have you been included in the update team or otherwise provided input?

Were all the cast and forged parts that GM made for themselves painted? Like front wheel spindles, pitman arm, etc.?

[Joseph S.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Troy, Larry's books are a fantastic read. I have used quotes from them many times while teaching classes and tech sessions.

I think every judge should read his books. The Exterior judges could learn so much from him.

[David B.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Have original GM 16 mm film A & B rolls on building the Corvette. I believe it was produced for the '63 model year. Acquired years ago while dumpster diving behind Jam Handy's building when they were closing their doors. Would probably answer a lot of questions if converted to disc or flash drive. Not sure if it was ever released in another format.

[Larry G.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

I worked at the Chevrolet Corvette Plant in St. Louis for the entire 1963 and the beginning of the 1964 model run as a Quality Analyst with freedom to walk the entire plant at will. I was there every day the assembly line ran, Saturdays included. The only photographer allowed in the plant during that time was there to photograph a few pictures at the end of the Final Line following Roll Test and at the end of the Final Trim Line. If a team of people were to take movies, I would have seen them.

I also worked as Quality Manager at the Balance Engineering Div. of the Illinois Tool Works. Paint on rotating parts such as drive shafts was discouraged as a coat of paint, no matter how innocent it looks, will add to the imbalance of the shaft. If or when the paint comes off the shaft it contributes to imbalance.

Chassis parts were painted only for rust prevention in storage and shipping. Full painting would have added to the cost and was not specified.

It has been noted by others that there is a Drive Shaft drawing that specifies "no paint on the machined surface of the splined slip yoke" on the front end of the Drive Shaft and drew the conclusion that the remainder must have required paint. This note provided instructions to not get paint on the mentioned surface for obvious reasons.

Photographs of complete painted parts and a chassis are not typical of production. Remember, the 1963 Corvette was nearly 100% new. Marketing wanted a lot of pictures of the all new chassis. Those parts would most certainly be painted for show purposes.

[Joseph S.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

I worked at the Chevrolet Corvette Plant in St. Louis for the entire 1963 and the beginning of the 1964 model run as a Quality Analyst with freedom to walk the entire plant at will. I was there every day the assembly line ran, Saturdays included. The only photographer allowed in the plant during that time was there to photograph a few pictures at the end of the Final Line following Roll Test and at the end of the Final Trim Line. If a team of people were to take movies, I would have seen them.

I also worked as Quality Manager at the Balance Engineering Div. of the Illinois Tool Works. Paint on rotating parts such as drive shafts was discouraged as a coat of paint, no matter how innocent it looks, will add to the imbalance of the shaft. If or when the paint comes off the shaft it contributes to imbalance.

Chassis parts were painted only for rust prevention in storage and shipping. Full painting would have added to the cost and was not specified.

It has been noted by others that there is a Drive Shaft drawing that specifies "no paint on the machined surface of the splined slip yoke" on the front end of the Drive Shaft and drew the conclusion that the remainder must have required paint. This note provided instructions to not get paint on the mentioned surface for obvious reasons.

Photographs of complete painted parts and a chassis are not typical of production. Remember, the 1963 Corvette was nearly 100% new. Marketing wanted a lot of pictures of the all new chassis. Those parts would most certainly be painted for show purposes.

Larry, thanks so much for helping to clear up this issue. We have been discussing this for years and the 2 sides have been split for that time. There is a large group of people that believe that the 63-67 Chassis was blacked out after assembly before it was turned over. I have always doubted that for the reason you mentioned earlier. Spraying anything that large in the middle of an assembly line does not make sense. Common sense will tell us that 1: clean up would be a disaster 2: personal protection would not be possible 3 working on the chassis/body integration with curing asphalt based paint everywhere would be counter productive to a moving assembly line.
If you are ever at one of our National or Regional events I would love to discuss this further.

Regards,

[Larry G.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

I attended the National at French Lick last year and gave a 1 hr talk. Can't make this year but perhaps next year. FYI - Undercoat in wheel wells was applied (sprayed) in the open air when the body was lifted off the body truck before body drop. The floor was covered with cardboard from parts shipments and was always a mess. Paint repair after Final Line Roll Test and before Final Trim was performed only in a down draft spray booth. There was an occasional paint repair outside of a spray booth of a very minimum small repair.

Thanks for your comments, I always enjoy responding.

Call me if you like. My phone number is in my web page. www.cartipsandbits.com

[Andy C.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Larry,

Thank you for chiming in on this. This has been battle for a while. My experience on several mid years that I have restored lines up with what you have wrote about. Hopefully, we get to see you soon.

Thanks
Andy

[Joe R.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Larry, Many years ago at the Joplin Regional there was a St. Louis worker there explaining how the Blackout was done. He did the Blackout himself and gave us real insight to the procedure. He said he was told to paint anything that was not already painted. This painting was done right before body drop and was done from above.
Were you at this meet and joined in the discussion?

JR

[Bob J.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

It has been noted by others that there is a Drive Shaft drawing that specifies "no paint on the machined surface of the splined slip yoke" on the front end of the Drive Shaft and drew the conclusion that the remainder must have required paint. This note provided instructions to not get paint on the mentioned surface for obvious reasons.

I'm confused. Why is the note not to get paint on the slip yoke there if nothing was painted?
Stuff I've seen past 50 years showed chassis goo. I clearly remember cleaning it off rear shocks, front exhaust shields. rear backing plates,front Z06 backing plates,spare tire buckets and more.
Most 63 Z06 guys think the only reason GM ever installed backing plate covers was to keep that black goo off the shoes.
Bob Jorjorian

[David B.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Have GM prints on '63 Corvette assembly propeller shaft and U-joint as well as drums etc. etc.. Paint referred to could be: " Paint No. 243-0679 yellow or equiv. opt. 248-59863 light green or equiv. marking to be at rear of tube next to nearest exposed trunion and as close as possible to light side at rear of assembly when balanced". There are 7 different weights that could have been attached to front and rear of shaft in order to balance.

[Mark F.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Have GM prints on '63 Corvette assembly propeller shaft and U-joint as well as drums etc. etc.. Paint referred to could be: " Paint No. 243-0679 yellow or equiv. opt. 248-59863 light green or equiv. marking to be at rear of tube next to nearest exposed trunion and as close as possible to light side at rear of assembly when balanced". There are 7 different weights that could have been attached to front and rear of shaft in order to balance.

Does the print say what the weights are for each of the 7 ?

Does it specify any markings on those 7 weights ?

[David B.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

Print does not give individual weights but does give the part numbers as follows:
3750102, xx103, xx104, xx105, xx106 there are no drawings for these but are shown on print 3750101. Additional weights are 3759338 and 3851654 added on 6-13-63. This particular print does not show any markings on added weights.
Print indicates: "Projection weld, Use as required"

[Larry G.]

Re: Still baffled by so many unpainted parts on a 63-64 chassis

I participated in the 1967 TIMJG and my name is posted in the front cover.

GM produced parts such as you listed were not painted by the manufacturing plant or the Corvette assembly plant. Any such parts that appear painted on unrestored, "original" jobs would only have been for rust protection and very light coverage at best.

Small parts like underbody tapping plate reinforcements for seats and seat belt attachment were painted in the assembly plant on racks spray painted. Some brackets and other small parts were also painted but nothing as large or as heavy as castings and forgings.