Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

[Michael L.]

Guys,

I'm just putting my spare tire carrier up with the spare in it for my anticipated judging of my Sept. '69 L-46. I've read about the tape on the tongue of the carrier in the TIMJG. I'm looking to replicate this but not quite sure how to do it. The JG says it was used to hold the bolt in the carrier during assembly. So if I use some masking tape to do the same thing will that basically accomplish my goal? I'm guessing it's the same tape used elsewhere on things like the body mount shims, which IIRC was 2" tape. Any further info on this is most appreciated.

Mike

[John L.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Mike,

I used off- white masking tape on my '72, no judging issues. I'm sure the UAW workers used whatever was on hand.

John

[Keith M.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Anyone got a picture of how this should look?

[Jon H.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Here you go!suvivor tire tub.jpg

[Michael L.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Thanks Jon. Can you expand on the explanation offered in the JG that the purpose of the tape was to hold the bolt in place during assembly? Thats a way more extensive strip of tape than the JG suggests from the picture they have. I guess I'm wondering why the tape was needed at all if the carrier was bolted into place, even if the spare wasn't in there yet. Yours runs all along the back edge of the carrier and even over onto the bottom. Can you confirm if this is from a '69?

Mike

[Patrick H.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

I would suggest that the tape in the picture looks to be more than typical. Usually I don't see it extend past that square hole.

However, just pretend to be a line worker and apply some masking tape. I guarantee you're going to be more careful than they were.

[Michael L.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Thanks Patrick. What I was trying to get was some more detail on why the tape was actually needed so that I could use that as a guide. Can you add to what the JG says?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

I suspect they may have been temporarily taped together during the assembly process even though to us it seems natural just to use the bolt. The bolt may not have been there at the first station, and they taped it until 3 stations later the bolt was installed.

We have to use conjecture at some point.

[Gary B.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

This is a late 68....
DSCN5156.jpg

Inside the tire tub.001 SPARE TUB.jpg
001 SPARE TUB.jpg

If you looked at ten cars, you would find ten different ways it was done.
Gary B

[Jon H.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

On most of the unrestored cars I have looked at tend to have remnants of the tape on the area in Gary's pics. The picture I posted was from my library of a low mile original early c3. Here is another one I have from a low mile 70.



1970 survivor chassis.jpg

[Terry M.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Our conductor (and it is just that only) is the bolt and lock were temporarily attached to the carrier before the carrier was attached at the front, The spare tire was put into the carrier and all those pieces were then attached at the rear with the two bolts that attach the bolt bracket to the frame. It was a lot to juggle all at once so the tape temporally held the carrier and the bolt together to assist the process. I think the main point is there was no need for a key in the lock and that additional item to fumble with.

On a restored car there is no need to place any kind of tape here because you aren't fooling anyone. I am not aware of any deduction for the absence of the tape, but then I haven't seen all the judging sheets from all the meets over the last decade or so that information is in he Judging Manual. If anyone has received a deduction for missing tape I would like the chance to console that judge.

Our main reason for putting that in the manual was in the hope that ORIGINAL cars were mot molested by well meaning owners cleaning the tape off in a misguided attempt at overdone and un-necessary cleanliness.

[Michael L.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Thanks Terry that is very helpful. I guess I have similar questions for most of the other things that are found in the JG and in a variety of corvette chassis restoration books I have used. As I did not do the disassembly and first restoration attempt on my car (long story) I do not have the advantage of having the car's original condition documented. Other than trying to achieve a Top Flight for the car, I really don't care much about adding all the paint daubs and other other things that an original car may have had when it arrived at the dealer, like on the tie rods, idler arm, steering box, etc.. Can you comment on the need for me to do all that specifically as it pertains to Judging? I would appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

[Terry M.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Thanks Terry that is very helpful. I guess I have similar questions for most of the other things that are found in the JG and in a variety of corvette chassis restoration books I have used. As I did not do the disassembly and first restoration attempt on my car (long story) I do not have the advantage of having the car's original condition documented. Other than trying to achieve a Top Flight for the car, I really don't care much about adding all the paint daubs and other other things that an original car may have had when it arrived at the dealer, like on the tie rods, idler arm, steering box, etc.. Can you comment on the need for me to do all that specifically as it pertains to Judging? I would appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

I would be happy to comment Mike.,
I must preface my remarks by stating that my NCRS Team Leader experience is many decades in the rear-view mirror, although I have current experience with some of the same judges at Bloomington Gold. I want you and others to understand my perspective because some of these areas are matters of opinion, and we all know what opinions are like.

I take it you have embarked on a frame-off journey with your 1969, Predicated on that belief, I would encourage you, after placing the coating of choice (that is a whole other subject) on the frame to place the appropriate shim marks on the frame. Most C3 chassis judges expect to see them on a restored frame. The orange marks on the front spindles and yellow markings on the tie rods are also expected. as is a frame number and date marking. Use tape to hold the body shims in place. If you have no record of the number of shims used at each position and can't resurrect the original marks you will have to adjust the number of shims at each location for best body fit. There are threads here and Corvette Forum on that subject and these other subjects. You may wish to use the spare tire tape but based on my conversations with current C3 chassis judges, it is not expected. There are threads here and Corvette Forum and likely other places on the net on these subjects.

Regarding bolt head markings: There are very few locations on the entire car where one bolt head marking was used exclusively. The bolt head markings signify manufacturer and grade. The grade marking is significant and should be regarded as sacrosanct, but often there were several manufactures for a fastener and so to say that one manufacturers logo was ALWAYS used is, in almost all cases, going too far. We can, and often do give a number of manufacturers logos for the locations where they are expected, but there could have been other manufacturers used. In any case bolt head markings should not result in more than a comment on the judging sheet. If all a judge can find to comment about or deduct for is bolt head markings, you are doing well. I once judged the chassis on a car that had mostly stainless-steel fasteners. That was not a good outcome, but that is a most egregious case, and should result in a judge and owner conversation with the appropriate Team Leader.

I'll make some additional comments about wheel weights on that thread as I have the time. I have some opinions on that subject as well. One needs to have some perspective on the subject of judging. Remember we are striving for the APPEARANCE of oricinality. Short of the few of us who own low-milage all original cars we are all duplicating what the state of the art is at the time the restoration is done. The state of knowledge will certainly be different decades in the future -- as it was decades in the past. That is the nature of what we do. Learn to live with that.

Sorry, this is so long. You may regard as an example of "be careful of what you ask for."

[Michael L.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Thanks Terry. Fortunately, I have done as you have suggested with regards to the restoration process, such as shim markings, body mount tape, frame stencil, etc. Fair number of my bolts were re-plated and reused, and when not salvageable new bolts were sourced with correct grade and head markings. See the attached pics of the near finished product. I have a set of bias plys and P02 wheel covers for judging as indicated by my original window sticker. I'm in the process of putting on the final touches prior to having the car judged. I will add those additional chassis marking as you suggest.

vette front view.jpgvette side view.jpgvette interior.jpgvette engine bay.jpgvette underbody.jpg

[Leif A.]

Re: Looking for more info on the tape found on the spare tire carrier in '69

Michael,
You've done a beautiful job of resurrecting your '69. Stunning!!