Question on 69 wheel weights

[Michael L.]

Guys,

I just had my bias plys mounted for my planned upcoming judging effort. I've read in the forum as well as the TIMJG and AIM about the wheel weights. I ordered a bunch of the correct wheel weights for this but I read in the AIM that the typical process was to limit each wheel to 1 weight and a maximum of 5 ounces of weight but where I ordered my weights didn't offer anything heavier than 2.0 ounces. A couple of my wheels required more than a single weight and one was way out of balance and needed four weights for like 7 or 8 ounces. I'm not sure what to do about this. Could I take them back and ask them to dismount and rotate the tire on the rim to help with the imbalance? Would that help? I'm not terribly concerned about the performance of the tires as they will really only be on the car for judging but just wanted to see what my options to address this might be. In the worst case scenario I would simply remove any weights that would not pass judging and live with the wheels out of balance as I won't be driving the car with these tires.

Mike

[Gary B.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

Mike,

In the ‘69 AIM, is there a note on the page about balancing the tire and wheel? Can you post a photo of what it says?

The ‘66 AIM describes that weights in 1/2 oz increments, up to 2.5 oz, were used. And the maximum permitted out of balance was 5 oz. Thus, multiple weights were allowed, and the splitting of weights was allowed if the unbalance was more than 3 oz. Were things different in ‘69? What does the exact text say in the ‘69 AIM?

Gary

[Michael L.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

Attached are the relevant pages of the 69 AIM. I guess the one weight thing can be viewed as a suggestion more than a hard rule. as long as there is less than 5 ounces of weights I assume your good. See below.

wheel balance inst A.jpgwheel balance inst.jpg

[Gary B.]

[Michael L.]

[Richard R.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

One other point on the weights, I was informed at the altoona regional that wheel weights were only placed on the inside of the wheel to avoid interference with the trim rings. Mine was, and still is, balanced with weights on inside and outside of the wheel, where needed and at Altoona and French Lick I didn't loose any points as a result.

Rich

[Gary B.]

[Gary B.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

I just took a look at the 63-67 Exterior judging sheets and the ‘66 JG. For ‘63-67, there are 25 originality points for the line item “steel wheels, weights, valve stems & caps”. I’d probably break up those 25 pts into 10 pts for the wheels, and 5 pts each for the other 3 items. In which case, a 20% or 1 point deduction is justified if someone installed the weights on the outside of the rim instead of the inside, since the outside is counter to what the ‘66 JG says about installation location. Things may be different for ‘69.

Gary

[Terry M.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

[FONT=arial][SIZE=2]I just took a look at the 63-67 Exterior judging sheets and the ‘66 JG. [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]For ‘63-67, there are 25 originality points for the line item “steel wheels, weights, valve stems & caps”. I’d probably break up those 25 pts into 10 pts for the wheels, and 5 pts each for the other 3 items. In which case, a 20% or 1 point deduction is justified if someone installed the weights on the outside of the rim instead of the inside, since the outside is counter to what the ‘66 JG says about installation location. Things may be different for ‘69.]

Things are not different for 1968-69. Per the 6th Edition of that TIM&JG. I looked.

Off the top of my head, I believe 1970-72 TIM&JG is the same. It was in 1993, when I wrote the first comprehensive 1970-72 TIM&JG, and so far as I know nothing has been brought forward to change that. I also believe all the AIMs in these 1968 to 1972 years specify wheel balance weights on the inside only of the wheels, although the 1972 wording is different than the other years, to the best of my recollection.


If at a given meet a car does not receive a deduction for a given non-typical item, there may be a number of reasons for that judging omission. Even if there are not enough points available to make a point deduction the judge(s) should leave a comment, but still there are a number of reasons why no comment is left.

In fairness to judges it is difficult to see wheel weights installed on the outside of road wheels if trim rings are installed. Full wheel covers make it a little easier, but not much. Judges have to be very observant to see the weight mounting brackets, but it can be done, Outside wheel weights on the spare wheel are much more obvious.

[Gary B.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

Terry,

Thanks for the info for those C3 years.

Gary

[Terry M.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

Terry,

Thanks for the info for those C3 years.

Gary

My pleasure Gary. You do a great job with so many of your posts. I appreciate the information and perspective you pffer in all your posts.

[Gary B.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

Thanks Terry. My main goal is for clarity and completeness in order to help others, and myself.

Gary

[Michael L.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

Thanks guys for the info. I did balance all the tires for my '69 on the inside only. I took the tire back and had them rotate it on the wheel 180 degrees and it lowered the needed weight from 7 Oz to 3 Oz. Unfortunately even though I specifically told the tech to save the original Micro weights he took off the wheel, he instead threw them away and I couldn't find them in the shop. Really annoying.

[Gary B.]

[Terry M.]

Re: Question on 69 wheel weights

Some observations and opinions of mine.

If you are having wheels and tires balanced for road use -- the state-of-the-art balancer is made by Hunter Engineering, a St Louis Company. FWIW: I once saw that the ST Louis NCRS Chapter got to tour their facilities years ago. I regret missing that.
Anyway, Hunter has A web site which allows you to enter your Postal Zip Code and find a shop using their equipment. The latest balancer is called Elite Road Force Balancer. Enter that choice to find a location that has that. Go and watch their work to be sure the operator looks proficient at the use of this high-tech machine. Hunter used to offer training for operators when the equipment was purchased new. There was an extra charge and giver the turn-over in these shops it is not easy to find operators who know all the features of the machine. Properly operated, it will allow the choice of weights only on the back and will tell the operator to rotate the wheel and tire for minimal weight addition. For road use one can put stick-on weights under trim rings to satisfy the desire to balance the wheel and tire assembly more accuratly. My experience is that dealerships are less cooperative in unusual requests like are required for our desires. I found near me Discount Tire is the best, but other stores that specialize in nothing, but tires are the most skilled. With the new Corvettes I willingly go 100 miles to the Tire Rack warehouse for tires, but that is not an option for most of us. I am most impressed by shops that use hand tools on the lug nuts and real torque wrenches to tighten the lug nuts -- no torque sticks allowed. That is what we taught in school, but in the real-world time is money and quality suffers as a result. One has to be willing to pay for quality work. I use these same standards for my Daily Driver cars as for the judged cars. I don't think I need to go off on the safety aspects of wheels and tires.

https://www.hunter.com/find-equipment/

For wheels and tires used for show
The amount of OEM or reproduction weights used in the back is not critical due to the limited use of the tires. It should be remembered that not all wheel and tire assemblies needed balance weights and the OEM balance at St Louis was done with what was essentially a bubble balancer. That machine sprayed a colored wax dot on the tire where the weight was to be installed. The color told the operator the size weight to use.
With respect to judging inappropriate installation of wheel weights or the road wheels IMO does not merit a 20% deduction, but if all four road wheels are not TFP for just the wheel weights I might be talked into it. Especially because it is so easy to "fake it." If one has to use the same wheels and tires for PV and judging, see the Road wheels story above.